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26 Mar 2012

11:31 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
Have you ever heard someone ask which church do you belong?  Has someone said "would you like to find out how to become a member, or what it means to be a member of this congregation?

Reminded of this this morning as listening to an invite to a "New Friends" dinner.  Also, happens regularly at work when discussing what we did on the weekend.

As we know from scripture, as believers in Christ, as his followers, we enter into his people.  We become a member.  We enter into his church, his body.  As such you can never be late to church, never be absent, or on holiday.

So to ask which church we belong to is a redundant question.  All believers belong to the same church.  So the question must be being asked in terms of which tribe do you belong.  Okay we already trust in this.

But what is rattling around in me is the flip-side of that coin.  Since we are of the one body, to love put this reality means being able to enter into any tribal gathering in peace.  Why?  Because we already belong.  It is therefore possible to see and live in such a way that these are my people though they may not accept me in return.

The other point is that when a congregation speaks of membership what do they mean?  Are they speaking of people who turn up (attend) or those who are pursuing Him?   Thus, on Sunday there may be 200 people in the room, but maybe only 1 or 2 followers.  Indeed, this can be true of those called elders and leaders etc.

But here too what do our eyes see?  Unbelievers, the lost, the distracted, the tribal, or people who Christ still died for?  Do they treat his sacrifice in vain?  Maybe but is that our call when restoration always is possible

Should we accept the dysfunctions of today's tribal church?  No.  But then ask, if sectarianism is not God's will, and a house divided is bound to fall, then, maybe we need to approach our church family as we would any other person.

If sunday services, as they stand today, are the same in essence as any other sphere, broken, and we are to live as Christ did/does, then we need to be about pointing to the exit door in the knowledge that all systems are already destroyed.
11:26 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
"And the buttons glow in the dark"
It is great to revisit the parable of the prodigal son.  A story, amongst others, spoken by Jesus to the pharisees and teachers of religious law, and likely in the presence of the tax collectors and other notorious sinners who often came to listen to him.

The one lost sheep among one hundred.  The one lost coin among the ten.  The lost son
As I read this I see parts like the guy being lost, dead, etc... or about redemption, love, relationship... or attitude of the brother who stayed..,

Or when a message is preached from the pulpit I am reminded of how I am like the lost son or the brother who stayed is like religious people.  Great analogy as it meets the reason why Jesus said it to the Pharisees etc

But what I am also caused to contemplate is at what point did the lost guy stop being the father's son?

When he left home?  When he rejected his father?

Then why is he always  referred to as a son?  Could it be that he was the father's son before he left, while gone, and when he returned?  Is there any part of the father's behaviour which indicates he stopped considering this guy as part of his family?

The same is true of the sheep and coins.  Being lost, found, reunited did not mean introducing another species into the flock, or a spoon into the money bag.  They were sheep/coins before they were lost, while lost, and when found.  Those doing the seeking knew this.  Do we?

So now I must ask how this revelation applies to me?

How does this look in the context of Jews and Gentiles?

How does it affect my neighbours, colleagues, friends, family, etc in their own right as well as how I view them?

What  if they are protestant, catholic, baptist,  liberal, conservative, hindu, atheist, muslim, pagan, etc?  Does God consider all people regardless of their social or religious background part of his family even while they are practicing it?  If no, then I must reevaluate how he viewed and even now views me.  But if he does, why don't we do the same?  Why do we treat people as if they are family only when they cross the official line of "being saved"?  Let's be honest, even that is often lacking unless a person meets our own personal preferences.

And if he has always considered us family, then I must go to him again and ask what he means by salvation, redemption, and restoration.  Is it about healing and making things right amongst his family, or about transforming spoons into coins, cows into sheep, people into christians?

15 Mar 2012

9:39 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
Church and Christian movements throughout history
Anglican, Apostolic, Assemblies of God, Baptist, Catholic, Christian City Church, Christian Revival Crusade, Church of the Nazarene, Churches of Christ, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Reformed Churches, Salvation Army, Uniting, Vineyard, Wesleyan Methodist…

»  Is the church, God's family healthy today?
»  Is it mature in the likeness of Christ? (Ephesians 4)
»  Has the task Jesus set before us been completed? (Matthew 23:18)
»  Do we love others as God loves us (1 Peter)?
»  Are we one as Jesus and the Father are one? (John 15)

These are just some of the many and varied Christian groups in Australia, whether they are called churches, denominations, or movements.  This is not to mention all the ‘independent’ or non-aligned ones, as well as home churches.  Furthermore these are then subdivided.

Why the Division?
  • Disagreement over the interpretation of God’s word
  • These disagreements can be taken personally and become points of conflict
  • Refusal to resolve differences
  • This can lead to people pursuing their own self-interests and agendas
These are just some of the many and varied Christian groups in Australia, whether they are called churches, denominations, or movements.  This is not to mention all the ‘independent’ or non-aligned ones, as well as home churches.  Furthermore these are then subdivided.

Often disagreement can occur over how God’s word should be interpreted and therefore lived out and sometimes these disagreements are taken personally and become points of conflict.  When this occurs and people may refuse to resolve their differences making the conflict more permanent.

Does God approve of division among his family?  Is there room for unresolved arguments between individuals or groups of people?  Does it ultimately matter how we interpret God’s word?  Should people justify their positions?

»  What did Jesus say about a division? (Mark 3)
»  Is Christ divided?  Was the founder of your church crucified for you? Or were you baptised in their name?
»  What was happening in the Corinthian church? (1Corinthians 1-3)
»  Why did Paul refer to divisions as like acting like people who don't know Christ at all?


Have another read of the New Testament.  Look up and compare what is written about tribal separations (e.g. divide, segregation, arguing, strife) in contrast to unity (e.g. oneness, togetherness, fellowship).

Ultimately disagreement is a natural part of life.  However, is allowing it to continue beneficial (Ephesians 4:26-27) regardless of how strongly you feel about it?  Is it justifiable for division to go so far as to cause people to not only view themselves as part of different churches, but to believe their church has the one true truth?

If your answer to any of these questions is no then why do we continue to enable the situation?  Why don't we forgive? Why don't we love our enemies?  Why don't we try to resolve the hostility existing between people who claim to pursue Christ?

When you look at the various groups who gather in the name of Christ, do you observe that the conflict, misbehaviour, and even abuse of some is accommodated for by others (e.g. ignored, excused, glossed over, covered)?  Would you agree that this has been going on for so long that individual believers have spent their entire faith life seeing this kind of relationship as normal?

When you observe the church, do people tend to be passive?  Maybe they provide care in such a way that negatively impacts themselves or the ones being helped?
But isn't putting others first essential to following Christ?  Yes and no.  God asks us to be generous with all we have, including our very life, but not to the point where we need the welfare of others.

Are there behaviours, thoughts and feelings that go beyond normal kinds of self-sacrifice or care-taking.  For instance, do people or groups act as martyrs?  Do they help others to attract attention and sympathy as they feign exaggerated suffering?  Do they need to be needed?

A broader example is an ongoing need to be accepted, whatever the cost.  Thus when they disagree, they take the role of the victim, and feel guilty about standing up for themselves.

The term describing the refusal or inability to talk about relationship problems is dysfunction.  It is a term commonly used within families.  And if church can be considered as God’s family, it makes sense to examine our situation in this light.

To think about dysfunction within the church means considering it in terms of:
»  your own behaviour
»  your local church or congregation,
»  your church's main leader,
»  the denomination or movement in which you find yourself, and
»  the church as a whole in your area, your town, your city, your region

Dysfunctional Survey - Personal Dysfunctional Survey - Local Church Dysfunctional Survey - Leadership Dysfunctional Survey - Regional Church

14 Mar 2012

10:34 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
GALILEO (Rome 1610)
What did Jesus mean when he said people no longer need to go to the Temple of Jerusalem or the altars of the mountains to worship?  But instead the Father seeks people to worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4).

Is it possible that church is something other than a building we go to on Sundays to listen to a message about God?  And if so, could church be something beyond Sunday itself?
Have another read of the New Testament.  Search words like "body" and "temple" and consider those passages that use them as analogies to people who believe in Christ.  What is being shared?

Could church simply be who we are because of who God is?

And if so, then this applies to anyone including yourself.  Now ask, when was the last time you stopped being you?  Indeed, will you ever stop being you before death?  In short, you are always you, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  And as such, church being people exists all the time: at a Sunday service, at the shops, at work, walking the dog, eating breakfast.  Yes, even while you sleep.

One more step, with a deep breath.

The bible repeatedly refers to individuals who are reconciled with God as His children.  Likewise the bible refers to groups as children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ.  What does this make you think of?  Where do you hear terms like father, brother, sister, children, etc?  Family.

In addition, what was intended by Jesus’ death and resurrection?  What does it mean when an act applies once and for all (Hebrews 10)?  What does it mean when a gift is given free of charge (Romans 6)?  Use a dictionary to learn what it means to redeem something (Luke 1)?

Was this only applicable to the people alive ca.33AD?  Did it apply to people who later heard the message, also at that time?  What about today?  If Jesus’ sacrifice to free people really was a once only action, are people free because they believe it happened or simply because it happened?

And, if people are free because it simply happened, then who are free?  Christians? Everyone? Christians who do and say the right things? Buddhists? Muslims? Hindus? Catholics?  Anglicans? Pentecostals? Atheists? Who? This is not a comment on what a person does with their freedom.  The question is whether or not people need to do something to gain their freedom.

Take care.  There was once a time when you too did not acknowledge God as being real, let alone what he did for you.

Remember, have another read of the story about the prodigal son (Luke 15).  Did the son ever stop being a son?  What does that imply for Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Anglicans, Pentecostals, atheists, etc?  How does our idea of who is part of, or excluded from, God's family match up with his?

Review …
  • If church is who we are because of who God is, then there are implications for when and where church occurs.
  • If church is God's family we need to better understand who he considers is part of it.
  • If we are not upholding God’s values then we must ask ourselves what we are really doing.

2 Mar 2012

It has come to my attention that some Christians filter who may and may not gather with them during such times as a home group or bible study. The reason  is the new person would change the dynamics (e,g, learning stlye, maturity, gender, age, personality, denominational background, etc) of the group or not cope with the existing dynamics.  Therefore their presence would be considered disruptive.

Whether or not this sounds reasonable, is it acceptable?

Does God treat people this way? Did Jesus when on earth? What if you did this happened to your children?

Imagine saying to someone "Sorry, you cannot come pray and seek God with us because we are concerned you presence will disrupt the established group. We are doing things you may not be able to understand and we don't want to make the effort to change how we operate."

How you would respond if someone told you that?

May our doors be open to anyone willing to seek Him. Regardless of denominational or ideological background. Regardless of age, gender, socio-econics, or level of spiritual maturity.

May our minds and heart be open to Him so that we do not consider ourselves more important than others.

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