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Showing posts with label body of christ. Show all posts
Showing posts with label body of christ. Show all posts

9 Dec 2012

Am reading the NT and re-encountered the part about eating foods offered to idols ...
  • Knowledge leads to self-importance whereas love strengthens the church
  • That not all believers know that there is one Father and one Jesus and therefore they continue to think that idols are real
  • As such they, for example, will see certain foods that were associated with these idols (before becoming believers) as still attached to their worship
  • Thus if they see anyone eating these foods it will create confusion: "How can you eat that, you are a believer, and now you are worshiping this false god"
  • This confusion may then lead the new believer to eat the food they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them

NOW ... my musing is how this relates to today ... specifically:

  • That not all believers know that since Jesus' death and resurrection there is no need to go to the mountain altars or city temples to worship because as he resides in us and we in him, we are free to worship anywhere anytime in truth and spirit.
  • Indeed many believers continue to believe that attending a specific building is the only place, or brings validity to worship
  • Hence, if they become aware that you are not attending a building or belong to a specific group it will create confusion: "How can you worship that way?" "If you are a believer, how can you claim authority or protection?" etc.
  • For these believers, the confusion they feel could result in feeling they are being asked to do something they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience if they left their regular place of worship

The point I end my musings (at least in writing) is that I do not how to reconcile the final part ... suggestions please

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them...

17 Jul 2012

God why are your people so confused? Why do we prefer to choose a life of niceties and self protection and justify it with the name of your son?  Why are we so ready to reject your reality?  Why do we call comfort and preference faith?

Why do we insist on giving all our time to people who are either like us, don't threaten us, or serve our self interests?  Please God bring our enemies, strangers, foreigners, the unlovable into our lives in such a way we cannot ignore them.  Open our eyes to what it means to reject you when we reject those you love.

Are you serious when you said you would vomit up the luke warm?  What about when you stated that anyone who does not love what you love hates you?  Is it true for you to not know us even as we go about your business?

Please God, don't leave us to our own self indulgences.  Please do something, anything to wake us up.  Please bring us to our senses.

God end our addiction to doing things our way.  Give us revelation to the dangers of pursuing sectarianism before it is too late.  Before the ground opens up beneath us, turn us around.  God teach us to see one another as family, to stop the finger pointing at our neighbours who we have labelled as heathens.  Indeed, please teach us to see one another.

Why do we justify our theological differences when you told us there is oneness in your body?  Why do we allow them to fester to the point of splits, starting something new, and mocking others?  God, what will it take for us to desire a path of healing from our family dysfunctions?

God, Please encourage us to stand by our brothers and sisters.  I am sorry that although my eyes were opened I stand back.  Should I limit my actions to prayer with the hope you will one day resolve our bickering and tribalism?  Or is there something you want me to do?  It breaks my heart to witness our situation.  Please open our eyes.  Please stoke or hearts.

"But don't we pray for other churches?  Don't our leaders gather?  Don't we celebrate at joint events or with visiting speakers?"

Why does it frustrate me to hear people claim that "All is well" or "the church has no real significant differences?"  How can this be true when there are dozens of denominations and hundreds of congregations who were formed on the basis of theological disagreement to the point where many won't even talk with one another.  How can this be a reflection of being one as you and your son are one?  Surely if there are no real differences it wouldn't matter where people go to gather and gain discipleship.  Isn't the same gospel being shared, the one Jesus, one Spirit, Father, etc?

Why have we convinced ourselves that the group we belong to is better than others?  Why have we convinced ourselves that our group has the real and exclusive truth?  Why do our elders compete for your flock, indeed compete for the right to rule your kingdom?  Should we remain silent or have we entered the guilt of enabling and cheering?  Are we to leave our family to their own devices?  How will you view us if we do?  Thank you for sending your son so we wouldn't perish.  Please God open our ears to the truth that comforts as opposed to simply seeking comfort.

27 Apr 2012

introduction
The use of terms referring to gender occur throughout the bible (e.g. mother, father, son, daughter, wife, husband).  Some apply to specific people.  Others provide information about a principle.  For instance:
  • Characteristics of a wife … (Ps 31)
  • How women should behave in church meetings … (1Co 14:34-35)
  • Definition of a widow … (1Tim 5)
  • How fathers need to treat their children … (Eph 6)
But how does reading Galatians 3:26-28 affect matters?

You are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.  There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

In other words, being part of God’s family means the divisions of heritage, social status, and gender are no longer relevant.  Does this mean you stop being a male or female?  No.  You still have the physical parts and the associated functions such as pregnancy and beard growing.  Then there are differences in hormones, emotions, etc.  So what exactly, does it mean for gender to be no longer relevant?

what does the bible say?
The starting point is to consider yourself in just one category: a child of God.  Do a word search of the bible using the keywords child and God.  How many of them refer to a gender?  What is common among them?
  • General information (Mt 5:9; Lk 20:36; Heb 12:7-8)
  • Connection to Jesus (Jn 1:12; Gal 3:7; Gal 3:26; Heb 2:14; 1Jn 5:1)
  • Where they come from (Jn 11:52; Rom 9:8).
  • Connection to God’s Spirit (Rom 8:14)
  • What God gives them (Rom 8:17-23; Gal 3:29; Eph 3:6)
  • How to recognise them (Mt 5:9; Phil 2:15; 1Pe 1:14; 1Jn 2:28; 1Jn 3:9-10; 1Jn 5:18-19)

fathers and their children
Choose one of the passages from the introduction, for example Ephesians 6: Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

If gender is relevant to this passage then it’s request only applies to men who are fathers.  Everyone else, including mothers, could be considered exempt and may therefore provoke children and not be responsible for the discipline of children. Such a world would make the efforts of a father impossible, so why even ask it of him.

If at the very least mothers also need to discipline their children and treat them in such a way that they are not provoked, then we must re-examine how God views things.

widows
Now read 1 Timothy 5: a widow who is put on the list for support must be a woman who is at least sixty years old and was faithful to her husband…continue reading.

Why does God repeatedly associate widows with orphans and strangers in his word?  Could it be they are each a group of vulnerable people in the community?  If gender is relevant to this passage then it’s request only applies to widowed women.  Vulnerable elderly men could be considered exempt and we may therefore ignore their needs.

But read the passage in context.  Why were female widows even brought to attention?  Was there a cultural context? Do we simply transfer the action word for word, or do we need to look at the intent between the lines?

conclusion
Whenever you read something in the bible or are given advice, look at the underlying truths.  If God treats his children equally, then we need to live that way too.  Matters of character, principle, ethics, justice, love apply to everyone.  Equally.

26 Apr 2012

introduction
When you read the bible, how do you discover and understand what God means?  Do we simply read the words and go apply it?  Do we listen to a church sermon from or the advice of a Christian and simply do as suggested?

Why did Jesus say to the religious leaders and scholars of his day that knowing the words is not enough (e.g. John 5:39-40)?  What did he say we need instead?

Can understanding what God means occur by interpreting the bible through the lens of your society’s culture or your personal life experiences, preferences, desires, biases? (Isa 55:8).  Or should we be evaluating our culture and personal expectations through God's meaning?

Other things to consider:

[dropdown_box expand_text=" " show_more="click to read more" show_less="click to hide" start="hide"]

  • Context ... How much of the message are you being told?  A few words, a sentence or two, maybe a paragraph.  The sentences before and after a passage or quote often bring what is being said into focus.
  • Topic ... What is the real focus of what you are being told?  Is the passage or quote the focus of what is being explained or is it used to justify a predetermined theme or topic?  This is seen when a speaker starts with a quote but the rest of the time is used referring to personal and cultural concepts, ideas, presumptions, etc.
    [/dropdown_box]
    xample

example: friendship (top of page)
To explore this further, read John 15:12-15, a quote sometimes used to speak of friendship.

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
(John 15:12-15)

In a recent church service, the speaker chose this to open a message about friendship (audio).

Was the surrounding text (context) spoken of (John 15:1-27)?  No, these were the only sentences used.  In addition, they were used to open the message, a message among a series about relationships (topic), and explored by a list of cultural types of friendship and concepts (e.g. purpose, value, time needed, number of people involved) about friendship.

Does this passage clearly state that Jesus is teaching about friendship?  Yes.

Does this passage give an explanation for how Jesus defines friendship?

No. It only reveals that he was talking about friendship.

Was the text explored before or after to discover whether Jesus gave any further.  No.

So, what is the context of what Jesus was saying?

What did he say both before and afterward?befo
re
the text before (top of page)
Jesus gives an analogy where He is a vine, God the Father is the viticulturist (grape farmer), and people are a branch.
[table id=9 /]co
mmandments
what does Jesus ask?
(top of page)
What are Jesus’ commandments?
  • That we love one another, just as Jesus loved us (and the Father loved him)
  • This means to lay down (sacrifice) your life for your friends
  • As a result, a friend is anyone who does this
The benefit of this is that Jesus will share everything he has heard from God the Father.after

the text after
(top of page)
Jesus continues his comments about friendship by stating that "the reason why the world hates you is because it hated him first."  Why?  Because when Jesus calls you out of the world you stop being part of it, and the world hates anything and anyone who is not part of it.  Consequently, since Jesus was persecuted, because God the Father is not known, so will you be persecuted. 
summary
summary (top of page)
To be a friend is to sacrificially love people.  This is how God the Father loves Jesus and Jesus loves us.  If you do:
  • You will be glorifying God the Father by proving yourself a disciple of Jesus
  • Jesus will share with you everything he has heard from God the Father
  • God will prune you in such a way that anything you ask of him will be done
  • You will be persecuted by anyone who doesn't know God
action plan: what to do next?
From the teachings of Jesus in John 15, is it possible to list the various types of friendship, or relationships we find in our society?  Is it possible to analyse their value or how to achieve them? Indeed does the teaching justify or prove our culture and personal expectations of friendship or other relationships?
If we take the teaching at face value, we must ask:
  • How do we love people sacrificially? How did Jesus?  How did God?
  • How do we prepare for and persevere through persecution?  What does persecution look like?
  • How does God prune us?
  • Do we limit our sacrificial love (friendship) to certain people or open ourselves to anyone?  What does this mean for our current relationships?  What does it mean for the people we currently exclude or don't see at all?

18 Apr 2012

“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict everyone of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Enoch as quoted by Jude)

In the church there are people who will try to convince you that God allows us to live immoral lives.  Their argument is since God is all loving and forgiving, he will not allow anyone to perish.

Yet, according to the writings of Jude 1, these people deny Jesus Christ. How?
On the one hand they claim to know God by the revelations they talk about. While on the other hand, they
  • live immorally, defy authority, and scoff at things they don't understand
  • grumble and complain
  • brag about themselves
  • flatter others to get what they want
  • live only to satisfy their own desires
It is through this contradictory lifestyle they try to convince you. "I call myself a Christian, a church-goer, but am not prepared to live as a child of God."

remember
  • Jesus rescued Israel from Egypt, but later destroyed people who didn't remain faithful
  • The angels who didn't stay within the limits of the authority God gave were imprisoned
  • Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns were destroyed for their immoral living as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment
beware
When someone claims to know God but lives for themselves they will not only bring destruction upon themselves.  To merely be around them, even at a church worship service could, if you are not vigilant cause you too to stumble.

8 Apr 2012

If history had developed a different set of tasks for the pastor of our local churches, would the people who seek to be today's pastors be doing those things instead of what they are now doing?

Why do we do the things we do?

Why do we do them the way we do?

Do tasks and jobs, activities, create the role (pastor or otherwise), or does the role determine what we need to do and how we do them?  That is, "I am X because I do Y", a matter of utilitarianism (function), or "I do Y because I am X" a matter of character (heart)?

action
With these options in mind, examine your church.  Why are people, including your pastor, priest, elders, deacons, etc, doing what they are doing?  Is it because it is an outcome of the heart God has instilled into the role?  [To discover this answer you may need to revisit the bible and seek God for his intentions.]  Or is it because there are certain activities that need to be done? (and yes there may be a mix of both).

Indeed, ask these same questions of yourself in terms of being for instance a parent, a brother or sister, a child, a work colleague, a friend, a citizen of your city or nation, etc.
related posts

3 Apr 2012

If we are one with the Head (Jesus), we are one with the Body (church), even if we are not gathered together.  But, if we are not one with the Head, we are not one with the Body, even if we are gathered together.

1 Apr 2012

Whose responsibility is it?

A woman is sitting on her own.  She is new to town and knows no one.  She does not even have family with her.

Whose responsibility is it to initiate an interaction.  Is it hers to introduce herself or for others to approach her?  Assuming she has a level of courage in this scenario, relationships could form even if no one approached her because she can make the first move.

But what if this lady has been experiencing some trauma in her life or something else that is causing her to hold back, to not make the first move? What if she is has a bad reputation or is physically unattractive?  What if her personality is different?  What if she has low self-esteem?  What if she finds it hard to trust people due to how she has been treated in the past?

Is it fair to suggest it was her responsibility if no interaction occurred?

What if this lady was you?

14 Mar 2012

10:34 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
GALILEO (Rome 1610)
What did Jesus mean when he said people no longer need to go to the Temple of Jerusalem or the altars of the mountains to worship?  But instead the Father seeks people to worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4).

Is it possible that church is something other than a building we go to on Sundays to listen to a message about God?  And if so, could church be something beyond Sunday itself?
Have another read of the New Testament.  Search words like "body" and "temple" and consider those passages that use them as analogies to people who believe in Christ.  What is being shared?

Could church simply be who we are because of who God is?

And if so, then this applies to anyone including yourself.  Now ask, when was the last time you stopped being you?  Indeed, will you ever stop being you before death?  In short, you are always you, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  And as such, church being people exists all the time: at a Sunday service, at the shops, at work, walking the dog, eating breakfast.  Yes, even while you sleep.

One more step, with a deep breath.

The bible repeatedly refers to individuals who are reconciled with God as His children.  Likewise the bible refers to groups as children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ.  What does this make you think of?  Where do you hear terms like father, brother, sister, children, etc?  Family.

In addition, what was intended by Jesus’ death and resurrection?  What does it mean when an act applies once and for all (Hebrews 10)?  What does it mean when a gift is given free of charge (Romans 6)?  Use a dictionary to learn what it means to redeem something (Luke 1)?

Was this only applicable to the people alive ca.33AD?  Did it apply to people who later heard the message, also at that time?  What about today?  If Jesus’ sacrifice to free people really was a once only action, are people free because they believe it happened or simply because it happened?

And, if people are free because it simply happened, then who are free?  Christians? Everyone? Christians who do and say the right things? Buddhists? Muslims? Hindus? Catholics?  Anglicans? Pentecostals? Atheists? Who? This is not a comment on what a person does with their freedom.  The question is whether or not people need to do something to gain their freedom.

Take care.  There was once a time when you too did not acknowledge God as being real, let alone what he did for you.

Remember, have another read of the story about the prodigal son (Luke 15).  Did the son ever stop being a son?  What does that imply for Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Anglicans, Pentecostals, atheists, etc?  How does our idea of who is part of, or excluded from, God's family match up with his?

Review …
  • If church is who we are because of who God is, then there are implications for when and where church occurs.
  • If church is God's family we need to better understand who he considers is part of it.
  • If we are not upholding God’s values then we must ask ourselves what we are really doing.

2 Mar 2012

It has come to my attention that some Christians filter who may and may not gather with them during such times as a home group or bible study. The reason  is the new person would change the dynamics (e,g, learning stlye, maturity, gender, age, personality, denominational background, etc) of the group or not cope with the existing dynamics.  Therefore their presence would be considered disruptive.

Whether or not this sounds reasonable, is it acceptable?

Does God treat people this way? Did Jesus when on earth? What if you did this happened to your children?

Imagine saying to someone "Sorry, you cannot come pray and seek God with us because we are concerned you presence will disrupt the established group. We are doing things you may not be able to understand and we don't want to make the effort to change how we operate."

How you would respond if someone told you that?

May our doors be open to anyone willing to seek Him. Regardless of denominational or ideological background. Regardless of age, gender, socio-econics, or level of spiritual maturity.

May our minds and heart be open to Him so that we do not consider ourselves more important than others.

6 Feb 2012

Having a chat with a colleague today who shared something very interesting.  She grew up within the Anglican church, then known as the Church of England, she attended every Sunday as was Sunday school teacher for many years.  However, over time she saw the hypocrisy and institutional nature of the church.  Not wanting to abandon God or Jesus who she still loves dearly, she discovered the Buddhist faith to which she now adheres.
This discussion is unfinished, but what stood out was NOT a rejection of God, but a deep desire to stay true while the church of man world around her failed.

Yes, it could be argued she should have persevered, or her faith was weak, etc.
But was it?  Is it?

I believe what she is sharing is a GREAT desire to be in God's kingdom.  However, the culture of the man's church demands or expects certain things of us we just cannot swallow.  And as there are few to no real, authentic alternatives, some people look further afield.

Jesus said when he was on earth that Gods flock was scattered and without a shepherd.  He also asks his people to share that work, both in the old and new testaments.

What would it be like to live in a world where people are like shepherd without a shepherd?  Would Jesus see this in the same light as he did the Pharisees and Sadducees?  Is this lady alone in her plight?

27 Jan 2012

Does authority exist even if we choose to ignore or not recognise it?

If so, does Christ's authority exist if we as believers or as the church collectively ignore or not recognise it, let alone disobey it

If yes, then would it be wise to discover and then stop doing everything that usurps his authority? Usurp? Yes, anything we do to take that does not belong to us.

What areas does the church currently do this?

How are you personally behaving to support this behaviour?

23 Jan 2012

2:23 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
For those of you who sometimes look around and ask if things will ever change, within the structure that is church please remember...
  • There was a time when exile was all the Hebrew nation knew
  • There was once a time when you could have spent money to ease your way and those of your loved ones into heaven
  • There was a time when unless you could understand Latin, God's word was unavailable
  • There was a time when no thought was given to slavery to grow the British crops in the americas
  • There was a time when hospitals and public schools did not exist
  • There was a time when sharing God's word with foreigners was considered worthless
  • There was a time when only a priest could speak to God on your behalf and revelation was for them to share as deemed fit
  • There was a time when prophesying and speaking in tongues was considered of the devil
  • There was a time when only an ordained minister could baptise or marry people
  • There was a time when people believed worship was about singing songs and raising hands
  • A time when the sunday service was central
  • A time when the preacher was central
  • A time when denominations existed
A time...

Be encouraged that while we live during times of limits, the end seems impossible, unwarrented, or unseen, depending upon who you are.  But, when we look back, hindsight always shows us breakthrough.

29 Dec 2011

dream
I was within a corporate building upon a floor with lots of rooms and offices.  Within one of these rooms I was speaking with a young lady, of the Islamic faith, who I used to work with in the kitchen of a nursing home.  As we spoke my left arm rested atop her right arm, including our hands.  In knew in this acton great affection was being expressed.


interpretation
According to muslim dream symbolism, limbs represent family amd arms brotherhood.   A muslim to dream of holding a woman represents loving the world and rejecting the afterlife.  However this dream, if of God cannot be viewed this way.
  • The dream is not specific to this lady, her image was used because she is one of the few Muslim I personally know.
  • Women represent God's people, thus the context here is people of the Islamic sphere.  They are people he is seeking.
Thus, this dream is a parable in nature.  It challenges people who profess Christ to treat Islamic people as God does, as his family regardless of your views on reconciliation.  It also challenges people of the Islamic faith to see God as relational, to reject the world and embrace eternal life.  Both are counter cultural.

5 Dec 2011



The following is a response to a spoken message by Tony Rainbow of Victory Church (Adelaide, Australia) to the people of Fusion City Church (Palmerston, Canberra - Australia)

audio link

introduction
Tony began by stating how there were about 120 believers gathered in one place after Christ's ascension (Acts 1:13-15). It was to these people Peter stood and spoke.

Please note this is the only scripture Tony uses during his entire message.

However, rather than putting this into the context of Jesus having asked them to stay in the city until they received the gift of the Spirit, Tony spoke of the significance of the number 120 in relation to human group dynamics:
  • Ignores the broader church by prioritising the local
  • Had it all together relationally
  • Were all at everything which was connected with Jesus' training
  • Relationships were like a family
  • The leadership style was casual and collaborative
  • Communication was informal and face to face
  • There was an ease in how they gathered
  • Everyone knew each other by name
But are these statements interpreted upon the bible itself or assumptions about small group dynamics?   For instance, where in the bible is proof that this or any other group knew the names of all their companions?  Indeed, was the group fluid, did people come and go?  Did anyone ever disagree on matters about God?

Instead, Tony suggests that these group characteristics, while being "the most awesome thing that could ever happen." But the problem comes when we "set this as the goal, we set a ceiling to the growth of the church, because that style of church only works with a certain number of people."

But why?  This assumption occurs when it is presumed people intended to continue gathering in groups of this size.  Why?  Because, the argument being made is to correlate church growth today with a particular gathering 2000+ years ago.

Where in this gathering is the evidence to suggest anyone intended to continue gathering in this way? What about other gathered people in the bible? Where during Jesus' life did he ever model this?

Why do people today find it necessary to justify church growth in terms of the number of people gathered?


bad logic

Arguments that try to build upon faulty assumptions tend to have personal agendas or opinions behind them. Why? Because the conclusion was considered before the evidence was sought.  Consequently, proof tends to be biased to justify seeing what we want to see.  Worse is when the bible is quoted in order to not only support the argument but actually pose it as God's idea in the first place.  The logic is: because scripture is "Holy Spirit inspired", "God's word", etc, then an argument no matter how flawed, given enough quotes, must be true.

This has occurred here with Tony.

Rarely do we allow God's word to speak for itself.

terra nullus
A further assumption being made by Tony is churches today are local in nature.  That is, a church is defined by the people who gather for services in a particular location. Yes, local churches today often have attendances of 80-150 people. However, what we forgot or ignore is local churches do not start, let alone grow, in a state of terra nullus. We falsely assume the territory our local church occupies or entered (planted) was not previously inhabited.

Was your church the first in the area you live?

And, if it was indeed a pioneer: was God there beforehand, or did God only start working in the lives of people when your church was established?

Sometimes it is a challenge to remember that your local church is but one of many, even within a few street blocks. And regionally, one among many many more.  No local church is an island unto itself.  As such, the church to which you belong is not 30, 80, or 120, but could actually be populated by many thousands.

misdirection
Tony: "Who wants the church ... to grow?  Most people want the church to grow but get stuck at a certain number.

Tony: Churches get stuck at 150 or less because this is “about the most number of people a person can connect with.  Thus people naturally feel displaced once their group reaches 50-150 people.

This argument continues to push the idea that church growth is about the number of people who attend a service or the number of people who choose to be members a local church.

How does God consider growth?  Is it about numbers or about invisible things like character?

If there are 100 people in a room singing hymns and listening to a message from the pulpit, how many claim to know God?  How many does God know?  Indeed, does God know anyone who is not in attendance?  Does he know them if they never attend a local church anywhere?  Is that enough?

Furthermore, if the church is indeed more than the local, how do comments like the one Tony raises, redirect how we view the importance of God dwelling among his people?

Finally, I put it to you feeling uncomfortable (displaced) is natural whenever we interact with another person.  The size of the group is irrelevant.  What matters is how you treat each person as they come.  Group size never dictates your relationship.

For a moment revisit Tony's conclusions about group dynamics in a personal way:
  • Are all the relationships you have with people in your church fully healthy?
  • Do you attend everything your church offers?  Do you need to?
  • Do people in your church treat you like family?
  • Is the leadership style of your church casual?  Does it seek guidance of other members?
  • Do you communicate with people informally and face-to-face?
  • Is interacting with people in your church effortless?
  • Do you know everyone in your local church by name?
What does it mean if your church has less than 150 people and the answer to any of these questions 'no'? At the very least it means that group size does not determine our behaviour and attitudes.

What does help shape our behaviour and attitudes?

size culture preference
Tony: "Size in numbers is connected with a size culture needing to be broken,”

Tony: “The main problem to growth is size culture preference,”

Tony: “Bigger change is needed (when) shifting from one size to another within the same denomination (than it is to shift between) denominations of the same size.”

When read in isolation, each of these statements is accurate.  We need to become free to be God’s people no matter how big or small the group of people gathered is.  Unfortunately, this is not the context Tony is suggesting, as shown below.

What was Jesus’ focus?  Did he come for the whole world or was it dependent upon the number of people gathered, the church size?

Why did Jesus so often avoid crowds?

 be big or be small
The following is a list of differences between small and larger churches.  The argument posed was churches with large numbers of people (more than 150) need to do things differntly to smaller ones.  Hence, to grow, a church must change the way it does things.  In short, population size affects activity.  An additional conseuqence of this idea is that smaller congregations are inherently different.  But given churches, no matter their size have people in them, is this accurate?

1.  smaller churches are less complex than larger gatherings because as the group size increases…
  • The less we will have in common with one another.
But, how does this match with what is written in Ephesians 4?
  • Not everything can happen in one Sunday service anymore (e.g. prayer is shifted to prayer meetings, exploring the word to a bible school, discipleship into home groups).
But how could everything occur during a single church service anyway, regardless of its size? What about evangelism, or family, or helping neighbours, etc?  In other words, how does delegating what daily life to set times and facilitators help?  How could you for instance pray, understand God’s word, or disciple others at home, work, school, wherever you are during your week?

2smaller churches need less production effort than larger churches
  • The more people involved, the more planning, lead time, etc is required to enable services and other activities to occur.  Events can no longer simply be thrown together as they are were with smaller gatherings.
To what extent are these events really necessary?  Are buildings, electronic audio devices, instruments, putting out chairs, etc essential to what God needs to do?  How do similar activities occur in parts of the world where money is non-existent?  Did Jesus live this way?  For Jesus, which came first, his mission or his method?
  • Smaller churches don't value the importance of quality of their activities as much as larger churches.  For example, because they embrace people, they permit anyone to sing and play an instrument regardless of their ability. 
Good.  The day we prefer how good a song sounds over the willingness of people to worship God and embrace one another, will be a sad day indeed.  To worry whether visitors are “put-off” based upon singing ability says more about how people view us, than our desire to be in God's presence.  To believe singing ability affects whether people have a “poor” or good impression of the pastor's message, or will “attract people or not” is naive at best (1 Corinthians 2).

3the ministry roles of smaller churches are not as specialised as those of larger churches
  • Small church ministries generalise what they do whereas larger churches specialise. 
Again, this is not a matter of scale.  God gives his gift for the entire church.  Hospitality, prophesy, teaching, etc are not dependent upon how many people are gathered but who needs to be equipped so they may do what God asks of them.  Why?  Because there are other people who either don’t know him or still need help to grow personally and as a community.
  • Only one person who can bring leadership and direction to this church. Thus it is an indictment (strong wrongdoing) for this person to do tasks that others could do. 
Christ and Christ alone is the one and only leader and director of the church.  Placing a person as the sole hearer and interpreter of God's word is dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  It encourages a false separation among God's people which may cause some to shirk their responsibility to speak with and listen to God directly, and others to not discern or question what they are told to believe and do.

4small groups of people do not experience changes to the same degree as bigger groups
  • Because not everyone will agree on the course of action to be taken, power to decide
    needs to move away from the congregation
    (all people) to a leadership team (a few).  This will enable decisions to be made more quickly.
Yes, absolutely, there will be times when, maybe every time, when disagreement will occur.  But to justify this as the reason for concentrating this priveledge in the hands of a few has the potential to ignore insight.  At the very least sharing our differences, in a manner that is respectful of others, helps to bring us closer together.  If nothing else, it evidences the contempt and lack of trust some church leaders and pastors have for people.

To simply claim possession of the decision making for yourself is again dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  Why? People are being asked to rely on Man rather than seek God, together.  The outcome, people are shaped in the image of the decision makers and not God.

So the next time you are invited to seek God about a decision, discern whether your consultation is genuinely being sought: are opposing views listened to and acted upon?  How is the decision to be made proposed: does it sound like they just want agreement on  something they have already decided on? Is there a personal agenda hidden among words that try to convince you that what is being presented is really God's vision?
  • When people leave because of the changes, this proves the church is growing.
Why?  What if you are wrong and they were right?  Was consultation ever permitted?  Maybe people are leaving for totally unrelated reasons.  Are people who stay encouraged to speak with those who leave to find out why?
  • There needs to be greater emphasis on vision and strength... churches need to do fewer things so they can do them well.  Likewise a church shouldn't try to do everything in the community, but try to do some things really well.  Both of these will depend upon the existing skill set and gift set.
While there is some truth in this, it ignores that regardless of the church size, there may never be every skill and gift available for what God is desiring to do.  It is not enough to limit what can be done based upon the resources available.  Doing this reveals a belief that we can do things in isolation and in our own strength.  Let us start by seeking God about what he is doing and how we need to grow and be equipped to accomplish it.  If this includes  cooperating with people outside our group, so be it.

conclusion
  • What does God consider important when it comes to growth?
  • Are we lending ourselves to a culture of self, preference, and prejudice?
  • Should what we do be a by-product of the size of our church group or should what we do be a product of who we are in Christ?

15 Nov 2011


background context
The 'head pastor' of a local church in Canberra, Australia, announced in December 2010 that a recognised prophet said God was "forcing Fusion through some doors".  He then explained this as evidence of the "coming to pass" of a building opportunity in Crace (purchase land and build a church building/centre).

discernment
Note: There is often a gap between revelation, interpretation, and application.  As such, there are a few ways to understand the above dynamics:
  • the prophecy is true and accurately understood by the hearer
  • the prophecy is true but interpreted through the desires of the hearer
  • the prophecy is true but 'tailored' in such a way as to be accepted by the hearer
  • the prophecy is false
As a third party, someone who did not hear the words directly from God, nor the one sharing, we must discern what is going on.  It is not enough to take things at face value.  We can personally talk with God, and he with us.  Also, both the 'prophet' and hearer, in this case a 'pastor' are both human.  They are capable of misunderstanding or biasing.

In this case, did the pastor have earlier desires to build a church building?  It may not have been publicly announced and even denied.

What if the opportunity doesn't succeed?

Does this make the prophecy inaccurate?  Or was it the interpretation?
  • How will the 'prophet' respond?  Seek clarity and discuss how things have been received by themselves and those they spoke with, or will they pass responsibility off onto other?
  • How will the hearer respond?  Will they admit their error and seek clarity, or will they justify their position?
  • What is your responsibility?
what happened next
In this situation, the land was not offered and thus a building could not be built (Nov 2011).  The 'prophet' has been silent, Matt stated that God still desires this local church to have a building, and the congregation clapped and cheered in agreement.

more discernment
Was the prophecy false?  The answer to this is unclear, but it adds possibility it was simply misinterpreted.  God wanting this local church to "go through doors" may mean go places it had not before, but it does not need to imply buildings and property or even the social and emotional associated changes that go with them.  Did anyone ask God what he meant?  Did they do this before the person in charge (the pastor) finalised the interpretation?

Assuming there will be people who will continue to justify their position, what should you as someone who chooses to discern do?  Do you confront and ask questions, or do you keep silent, for whatever reason?

personal responsibilities
  • Seek God's views on the matter, seek peace and an attitude of restoration.
  • Speak where possible directly with the people who made or shared the prophetic statements.  Voice the concerns.
  • If they listen great.
  • If they do not listen, they are now responsible for what happens next.  Yes, it is up to you whether you act in support of the project (e.g. give money). But you cannot force anyone to change.
Should you voice your concerns with others?  Maybe, but if you do, please do it with respect for all concerned.  Remember we all can hear God inaccurately and then, out of love for him, act upon it.

resolutions
How can peace occur among those who disagree?  Does peace mean finding a compromise?  Does peace mean doing what you are asked because the person who asks you is your pastor, boss, parent, etc?  Does peace mean discovering the points of agreement and building upon them?

19 Aug 2011

introduction
When Paul first came to the church in Corinth he didn't speak about God's plan with big words and impressive wisdom.  Instead, he chose to focus only on Christ and rely upon the Spirit:
  • Paul used plain words
    ... people understood not because of what he said
  • Paul was timid and trembling
    ... because did not know what would happen next

Why did Paul behave this way?  Because he wanted people to trust in God's power not human wisdom (1Co 2:1-5)

Yet, when he was among people who claimed to know God well, he chose to use words of wisdom.  Why? Because God gave us his Spirit so we can understand his thoughts.  Without his Spirit we cannot understand him.  As such:
  • people who know God, have his Spirit and thus can understand spiritual truths when they are shared to them, however,
  • people who don't know God, cannot understand, no matter how much they claim to know him.  It sounds foolish to them.

how this is generally applied in local churches
In some churches these passages are interpreted to mean that
  • God sends certain people of authority to "speak into our lives", as justified by Paul speaking to the church of Corinth.
  • And, because they are appointed "over you" "you need to submit to them".
  • However, if you disagree with them, this evidences your own personal pride.
But what if the speaker is wrong?  Do you have the opportunity to discuss the matter?

please read again 1 Corinthians 2
Does Paul state anywhere that some people are "placed in our lives to speak into our lives"?  Can this be fairly justified because it Paul, an authority, was the one who spoke?  Who does Paul say is speaking into our lives?  How?

Who does Paul suggest we need to submit to? A person or God?  How?

Finally, what are we to make of comments like "a person is prideful if the won't receive from others" or "people won't agree with what I tell them, but prefer to wait to hear from God"?

Does these comments reveal more about the person or the person claiming authority? (1Thes 5:19-22; 1Jn 4:1-3)

Is it wrong to first consider and seek God's counsel before doing what someone asks of you?  Or is it wrong to ask someone not to do this and just do what you ask of them.

conclusion
It is one thing to be willing to be fully submitted to Christ.  It is another to submit to another person simply because they claim to have godly authority.  Yes, they might have this authority.  But what if they don't?

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