eating food offered to idols

Am reading the NT and re-encountered the part about eating foods offered to idols ...

• Knowledge leads to self-importance whereas love strengthens the church
• That not all believers know that there is one Father and one Jesus and therefore they continue to think that idols are real
• As such they, for example, will see certain foods that were associated with these idols (before becoming believers) as still attached to their worship
• Thus if they see anyone eating these foods it will create confusion: "How can you eat that, you are a believer, and now you are worshiping this false god"
• This confusion may then lead the new believer to eat the food they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them

NOW ... my musing is how this relates to today ... specifically:

• That not all believers know that since Jesus' death and resurrection there is no need to go to the mountain altars or city temples to worship because as he resides in us and we in him, we are free to worship anywhere anytime in truth and spirit.
• Indeed many believers continue to believe that attending a specific building is the only place, or brings validity to worship
• Hence, if they become aware that you are not attending a building or belong to a specific group it will create confusion: "How can you worship that way?" "If you are a believer, how can you claim authority or protection?" etc.
• For these believers, the confusion they feel could result in feeling they are being asked to do something they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience if they left their regular place of worship

The point I end my musings (at least in writing) is that I do not how to reconcile the final part ... suggestions please

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them...

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holy holy holy

Please first read Colossians 1

Are all people made holy through Christ?  Is he reconciling all creation to Him?  If so, then how are we to understand Ephesians 4?

Apostles. Prophets. Evangelists. Teachers. Pastors.  These are the five roles given for the equipping of the saints.  But pause for a moment ... are these words accurate translations?

Saints ... This is an English word used to translate the Greek word meaning sacred or holy.  It is the same word always used to refer to the Holy Spirit and Holy Scriptures.  As such, it is not surprising to see it in terms of God's holy people or saints.  But is that what has occurred here?  Does the next part of the passage which refers to doing the work of the ministry only refer to believers?

Equipping ...  To provide whatever is needed to make something perfect, mature, full.
Consider for a moment (John 14-15, Rom 2, Heb 8-10, Col 1) ... According to Jesus, truth and spirit influences everything and everywhere, whether or not it recognises it as doing so.  Therefore, what would happen if  this understanding were placed into the Ephesians passage?

The five roles were provided by God so everyone (and everything) God considers holy could be made perfect, mature, full in every way.

This is significant because it suggests that apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, and pastors were not sent for Christians.  Rather, they were sent for all creation, every part of it, including everyone regardless of their faith, experience of God, or acknowledgement of Him.

Could it be God is prepared to interact directly with people?  Could it be that people are not obligated to go to designated Christian places and spaces?  Could it be that we are to go to them?

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pay your church leader's wage?

Please read 1Timothy 5

This passage is sometimes used to justify a call for people to financially support the leaders of local churches and parishes.  But is this an accurate assessment of the passage?

It should first be noted that of the various English bible translations, only a few mention "financial support".  Of these, the inclusion sometimes appears within brackets indicating uncertainty as to whether or not it should really be there.

For the most part, the translation typically reads: "Consider the elders who rule/lead you.   Honour them, especially if they work hard to peach and teach."

Can we say with confidence that God asks people to financially support their leaders?  Maybe, bu  because is verse is unclear, it is not safe to assume we do.  Let us continue.

The next question is who these elders are.  Are they elders in character regardless of age, such as appear in Titus or Timothy? Or are they elders as in older members of a community?

Please read again versus 5:1 and 5:17 and also use the concordance (left sidebar).  What is the Greek word being translated as elder in each verse? Are they the same or different words?  What is their respective contexts?

• 5:1 ... indicates elder as in age
• 5:17... unclear
• However, the focus is similar in both verses.  What is this focus?  Even the wording seems almost identical.
• What does this similarity suggest about who 1Timothy 5 is speaking of?

Could an analogy be being made between how we treat older people (5:1) and our church leaders (5:17)?  Maybe, but to do this requires using everything before 5:17, and treating it as a metaphor. This includes what is spoken of about widows because what is shared about them flows out of 5:1.   In short, everything prior to 5:17 is about elder in age.  Also there  is no transition (eg like, therefore, parable intro, etc) to suggest 5:17 starts a new topic.

So for the moment imagine an analogy is being made.  How would this read?  But before you do, consider what does it mean to "honour them"?  Again use the concordance to look up the word "honour".  What is the Greek word?  Now use the concordance to look at 5:3.  Find where this Greek word also appears.  Why in this sentence does it not translate "honour" but instead "take care of"?  Why is it specifically used for widows?

What happens if we insert the translation, because we treat what is written as an anology, of elder as church elder as in function regardless of age, as occurs in the church life today?  It would read something like:  "Care for your local church elders.  However, if they have the ability to support themself, let them.  If they cannot, but have kids or grandkids, let their own family support them so it may not be a burden on the broader church.  Failing these, please take care of them yourself."

Okay, they may not be widows, nor older members of the community, but care for church leaders anyway.  How?  In the same way as the frail, the vulnerable, the isolated, the family-less, the ones who have little option but the support of others.  Care for them because they have one of a wide variety of roles among God's kingdom.

Does this sound like an analogy of leadership?  Does this sound like a gospel founded leader?  Why would a list be given for what it means to be a true widow, someone really in need, and then say to someone who takes up a leadership role, be like that, this is how God want his leaders to be?

In other words, does 1Timothy 5 speak of leaders of local churches as we understand them today? Does either the text or God's heart allow it?  Does the language or context speak of people older in age with certain needs or leaders whatever their age?  Yes, we may choose to cared for/support our church leaders because they lead, but does this passage either  raise the issue, let alone require it?

Does the pastor, priest, leaders of your church or parish fit this need?  Does choosing to go into full time ministry qualify that person for being support according to is passage?  Could doing other work, a job, detract from running the logistics of the local church?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But regardless, does worrying about the consequences of ministry involvement create the meaning of this passage or simply your interpretation of it?

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God agrees with ME (friendship)

introduction

When you read the bible, how do you discover and understand what God means?  Do we simply read the words and go apply it?  Do we listen to a church sermon from or the advice of a Christian and simply do as suggested?

Why did Jesus say to the religious leaders and scholars of his day that knowing the words is not enough (e.g. John 5:39-40)?  What did he say we need instead?

Can understanding what God means occur by interpreting the bible through the lens of your society’s culture or your personal life experiences, preferences, desires, biases? (Isa 55:8).  Or should we be evaluating our culture and personal expectations through God's meaning?

Other things to consider:

[dropdown_box expand_text=" " show_more="click to read more" show_less="click to hide" start="hide"]

• Context ... How much of the message are you being told?  A few words, a sentence or two, maybe a paragraph.  The sentences before and after a passage or quote often bring what is being said into focus.

• Topic ... What is the real focus of what you are being told?  Is the passage or quote the focus of what is being explained or is it used to justify a predetermined theme or topic?  This is seen when a speaker starts with a quote but the rest of the time is used referring to personal and cultural concepts, ideas, presumptions, etc.
  [/dropdown_box]xample

example: friendship (top of page)

To explore this further, read John 15:12-15, a quote sometimes used to speak of friendship.

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
(John 15:12-15)

In a recent church service, the speaker chose this to open a message about friendship (audio).

Was the surrounding text (context) spoken of (John 15:1-27)?  No, these were the only sentences used.  In addition, they were used to open the message, a message among a series about relationships (topic), and explored by a list of cultural types of friendship and concepts (e.g. purpose, value, time needed, number of people involved) about friendship.

Does this passage clearly state that Jesus is teaching about friendship?  Yes.

Does this passage give an explanation for how Jesus defines friendship?

No. It only reveals that he was talking about friendship.

Was the text explored before or after to discover whether Jesus gave any further.  No.

So, what is the context of what Jesus was saying?

What did he say both before and afterward?befo

re

the text before (top of page)

Jesus gives an analogy where He is a vine, God the Father is the viticulturist (grape farmer), and people are a branch.

[table id=9 /]co

mmandments
what does Jesus ask? (top of page)

What are Jesus’ commandments?

• That we love one another, just as Jesus loved us (and the Father loved him)
• This means to lay down (sacrifice) your life for your friends
• As a result, a friend is anyone who does this

The benefit of this is that Jesus will share everything he has heard from God the Father.after

the text after (top of page)

Jesus continues his comments about friendship by stating that "the reason why the world hates you is because it hated him first."  Why?  Because when Jesus calls you out of the world you stop being part of it, and the world hates anything and anyone who is not part of it.  Consequently, since Jesus was persecuted, because God the Father is not known, so will you be persecuted. 

summary

summary (top of page)

To be a friend is to sacrificially love people.  This is how God the Father loves Jesus and Jesus loves us.  If you do:

• You will be glorifying God the Father by proving yourself a disciple of Jesus
• Jesus will share with you everything he has heard from God the Father
• God will prune you in such a way that anything you ask of him will be done
• You will be persecuted by anyone who doesn't know God

action plan: what to do next?

From the teachings of Jesus in John 15, is it possible to list the various types of friendship, or relationships we find in our society?  Is it possible to analyse their value or how to achieve them? Indeed does the teaching justify or prove our culture and personal expectations of friendship or other relationships?

If we take the teaching at face value, we must ask:

• How do we love people sacrificially? How did Jesus?  How did God?
• How do we prepare for and persevere through persecution?  What does persecution look like?
• How does God prune us?
• Do we limit our sacrificial love (friendship) to certain people or open ourselves to anyone?  What does this mean for our current relationships?  What does it mean for the people we currently exclude or don't see at all?

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danger of false teachers

“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict everyone of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Enoch as quoted by Jude)

In the church there are people who will try to convince you that God allows us to live immoral lives.  Their argument is since God is all loving and forgiving, he will not allow anyone to perish.

Yet, according to the writings of Jude 1, these people deny Jesus Christ. How?
On the one hand they claim to know God by the revelations they talk about. While on the other hand, they

• live immorally, defy authority, and scoff at things they don't understand
• grumble and complain
• brag about themselves
• flatter others to get what they want
• live only to satisfy their own desires

It is through this contradictory lifestyle they try to convince you. "I call myself a Christian, a church-goer, but am not prepared to live as a child of God."

remember

• Jesus rescued Israel from Egypt, but later destroyed people who didn't remain faithful
• The angels who didn't stay within the limits of the authority God gave were imprisoned
• Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns were destroyed for their immoral living as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment

beware
When someone claims to know God but lives for themselves they will not only bring destruction upon themselves.  To merely be around them, even at a church worship service could, if you are not vigilant cause you too to stumble.

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do we need to gather together?

If we are one with the Head (Jesus), we are one with the Body (church), even if we are not gathered together.  But, if we are not one with the Head, we are not one with the Body, even if we are gathered together.

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relational responsibity

Whose responsibility is it?

A woman is sitting on her own.  She is new to town and knows no one.  She does not even have family with her.

Whose responsibility is it to initiate an interaction.  Is it hers to introduce herself or for others to approach her?  Assuming she has a level of courage in this scenario, relationships could form even if no one approached her because she can make the first move.

But what if this lady has been experiencing some trauma in her life or something else that is causing her to hold back, to not make the first move? What if she is has a bad reputation or is physically unattractive?  What if her personality is different?  What if she has low self-esteem?  What if she finds it hard to trust people due to how she has been treated in the past?

Is it fair to suggest it was her responsibility if no interaction occurred?

What if this lady was you?

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prodigal

"And the buttons glow in the dark"

It is great to revisit the parable of the prodigal son.  A story, amongst others, spoken by Jesus to the pharisees and teachers of religious law, and likely in the presence of the tax collectors and other notorious sinners who often came to listen to him.

The one lost sheep among one hundred.  The one lost coin among the ten.  The lost son

As I read this I see parts like the guy being lost, dead, etc... or about redemption, love, relationship... or attitude of the brother who stayed..,

Or when a message is preached from the pulpit I am reminded of how I am like the lost son or the brother who stayed is like religious people.  Great analogy as it meets the reason why Jesus said it to the Pharisees etc

But what I am also caused to contemplate is at what point did the lost guy stop being the father's son?

When he left home?  When he rejected his father?

Then why is he always  referred to as a son?  Could it be that he was the father's son before he left, while gone, and when he returned?  Is there any part of the father's behaviour which indicates he stopped considering this guy as part of his family?

The same is true of the sheep and coins.  Being lost, found, reunited did not mean introducing another species into the flock, or a spoon into the money bag.  They were sheep/coins before they were lost, while lost, and when found.  Those doing the seeking knew this.  Do we?

So now I must ask how this revelation applies to me?

How does this look in the context of Jews and Gentiles?

How does it affect my neighbours, colleagues, friends, family, etc in their own right as well as how I view them?

What  if they are protestant, catholic, baptist,  liberal, conservative, hindu, atheist, muslim, pagan, etc?  Does God consider all people regardless of their social or religious background part of his family even while they are practicing it?  If no, then I must reevaluate how he viewed and even now views me.  But if he does, why don't we do the same?  Why do we treat people as if they are family only when they cross the official line of "being saved"?  Let's be honest, even that is often lacking unless a person meets our own personal preferences.

And if he has always considered us family, then I must go to him again and ask what he means by salvation, redemption, and restoration.  Is it about healing and making things right amongst his family, or about transforming spoons into coins, cows into sheep, people into christians?

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dysfunctional family

Church and Christian movements throughout history

Anglican, Apostolic, Assemblies of God, Baptist, Catholic, Christian City Church, Christian Revival Crusade, Church of the Nazarene, Churches of Christ, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Reformed Churches, Salvation Army, Uniting, Vineyard, Wesleyan Methodist…

»  Is the church, God's family healthy today?
»  Is it mature in the likeness of Christ? (Ephesians 4)
»  Has the task Jesus set before us been completed? (Matthew 23:18)
»  Do we love others as God loves us (1 Peter)?
»  Are we one as Jesus and the Father are one? (John 15)

These are just some of the many and varied Christian groups in Australia, whether they are called churches, denominations, or movements.  This is not to mention all the ‘independent’ or non-aligned ones, as well as home churches.  Furthermore these are then subdivided.

Why the Division?

• Disagreement over the interpretation of God’s word
• These disagreements can be taken personally and become points of conflict
• Refusal to resolve differences
• This can lead to people pursuing their own self-interests and agendas

These are just some of the many and varied Christian groups in Australia, whether they are called churches, denominations, or movements.  This is not to mention all the ‘independent’ or non-aligned ones, as well as home churches.  Furthermore these are then subdivided.

Often disagreement can occur over how God’s word should be interpreted and therefore lived out and sometimes these disagreements are taken personally and become points of conflict.  When this occurs and people may refuse to resolve their differences making the conflict more permanent.

Does God approve of division among his family?  Is there room for unresolved arguments between individuals or groups of people?  Does it ultimately matter how we interpret God’s word?  Should people justify their positions?

»  What did Jesus say about a division? (Mark 3)
»  Is Christ divided?  Was the founder of your church crucified for you? Or were you baptised in their name?
»  What was happening in the Corinthian church? (1Corinthians 1-3)
»  Why did Paul refer to divisions as like acting like people who don't know Christ at all?

Have another read of the New Testament.  Look up and compare what is written about tribal separations (e.g. divide, segregation, arguing, strife) in contrast to unity (e.g. oneness, togetherness, fellowship).

Ultimately disagreement is a natural part of life.  However, is allowing it to continue beneficial (Ephesians 4:26-27) regardless of how strongly you feel about it?  Is it justifiable for division to go so far as to cause people to not only view themselves as part of different churches, but to believe their church has the one true truth?

If your answer to any of these questions is no then why do we continue to enable the situation?  Why don't we forgive? Why don't we love our enemies?  Why don't we try to resolve the hostility existing between people who claim to pursue Christ?

When you look at the various groups who gather in the name of Christ, do you observe that the conflict, misbehaviour, and even abuse of some is accommodated for by others (e.g. ignored, excused, glossed over, covered)?  Would you agree that this has been going on for so long that individual believers have spent their entire faith life seeing this kind of relationship as normal?

When you observe the church, do people tend to be passive?  Maybe they provide care in such a way that negatively impacts themselves or the ones being helped?

But isn't putting others first essential to following Christ?  Yes and no.  God asks us to be generous with all we have, including our very life, but not to the point where we need the welfare of others.

Are there behaviours, thoughts and feelings that go beyond normal kinds of self-sacrifice or care-taking.  For instance, do people or groups act as martyrs?  Do they help others to attract attention and sympathy as they feign exaggerated suffering?  Do they need to be needed?

A broader example is an ongoing need to be accepted, whatever the cost.  Thus when they disagree, they take the role of the victim, and feel guilty about standing up for themselves.

The term describing the refusal or inability to talk about relationship problems is dysfunction.  It is a term commonly used within families.  And if church can be considered as God’s family, it makes sense to examine our situation in this light.

To think about dysfunction within the church means considering it in terms of:
»  your own behaviour
»  your local church or congregation,
»  your church's main leader,
»  the denomination or movement in which you find yourself, and
»  the church as a whole in your area, your town, your city, your region
Dysfunctional Survey - Personal Dysfunctional Survey - Local Church Dysfunctional Survey - Leadership Dysfunctional Survey - Regional Church

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in or out?

It has come to my attention that some Christians filter who may and may not gather with them during such times as a home group or bible study. The reason  is the new person would change the dynamics (e,g, learning stlye, maturity, gender, age, personality, denominational background, etc) of the group or not cope with the existing dynamics.  Therefore their presence would be considered disruptive.

Whether or not this sounds reasonable, is it acceptable?

Does God treat people this way? Did Jesus when on earth? What if you did this happened to your children?

Imagine saying to someone "Sorry, you cannot come pray and seek God with us because we are concerned you presence will disrupt the established group. We are doing things you may not be able to understand and we don't want to make the effort to change how we operate."

How you would respond if someone told you that?

May our doors be open to anyone willing to seek Him. Regardless of denominational or ideological background. Regardless of age, gender, socio-econics, or level of spiritual maturity.

May our minds and heart be open to Him so that we do not consider ourselves more important than others.

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God is all about relationships?

Today, the church often preaches about how God is all about relationships and as such so must the church.  We therefore have become accustomed to filtering what we do through the lens of relationships.  For instance, we only have the right to speak into another persons life once we have a relationship with them.  This is despite the fact that our very presence can be enough to affect another person's life, without have ever spoken a word to them let alone having met them.

We have also made our theology of God all about relationship.  God is the father, son, and spirit in continual relationship.  Occasionally, some believers will take the bold step and suggest people are invited into this relationship.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not opposing the importance of relationships.

But what I am pointing out is two things.  First, treating relationship this way is like the story of the elephant, where different people describe the elephant according to which part they were looking at: a leg, a trunk, an ear etc.  And as such they each spoke of the elephant in terms of the piece they could see.  Alternatively, what if the elephant is up a tree?  What if what we are describing looks like what we would expect a certain part of the elephant to look like, but we our expectations keep us distracted from looking up?

If we are doing this with God in terms of relationships, then what are we making the cornerstone of our faith and why?

Thus, the second point.  Could it be because our culture and society lack genuine relationship causing it to be the cry of our collective heart?  Could there be something more than what we experience through individualism?  Irony, in a desire to overcome individualism, we segment God into parts, father, son, spirit and then resolve this in terms of relationship, where we relate to one or more as our needs determine.

Again, not disregarding or diminishing relationship, trinity, or God's attributes. Just wanting to prompt us to consider what we doing and why.

Oneness

Jesus prayed that we be one like he and the father are one.  Is there distinction?  We are called to mature so we may be as the full stature of Christ.  We are to be in him and he in us... etc

This is like describing the colour green.  Yes we know and can show that yellow and blue are the component parts, and in a sense when we interact with green, we interact with mixed parts of yellow and blue.  But the truth is when you look at a frog or a leaf, you don't think or behave like that.  You only treat it as green.  We are not even contemplating how the bits work together.

Again, it is like when we send a christmas card to a household or a wedding gift.  Though we recognise each person involved, our focus os on the family, the couple.  Our love is for them as a whole.  Indeed, you may even sign off using your own family's surname.

The mystery that is God, the Church, etc...  Breaking him/us down while not 'bad', misses something.  And if we are doing this because of something we are missing in ourselves, communally or individually, then hmmm.

I pray that we are resolved in ourselves on this matter so that we may be one with one another and one with God.  And as such, just One.

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following jesus is easy

Accepting to follow Jesus means choosing to change how you live, unless you are one of the lucky perfect few.

How does God ask us to live? To worship him with everything you are, and to love other people as you would hope others would treat you (Matthew 7:12). And, fortunately an example of being loved by someone else has/is already given. God.

Choosing to live is to love as God loves us (John 15:1-17). Indeed, anything you say or do, if it lacks love is nothing (1 Corinthians 13).

What does it look like to love as God loves us?

How would church activity need to change in order to start and finish in love?

God has given the church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to equip his people to do what he asks them to do. Until, the church is unified in faith and knowledge of Christ in such a way that we are mature, that is measure up to the full and complete standard of Christ (Ephesians 4).

Is the church mature today?

Are people who say they are 'christian' pursuing teachings that sound like the gospel, but not? Which ones do you do this?

How are these teachings different, no matter how obvious or subtle?

Are people who say they are 'christian' speaking and living God’s truth with love?

What are some examples of how they should be speaking and behaving?

Are people who say they are 'christian' doing what God asks them to do or are they doing what people ask of them? What about you?

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isaiah 65:11

Saw the head pastor of Fusion City Church Canberra Australia sharing the message of Isaiah 65:11.

• This congregation is where my family has been visiting since late 2010.
• This is the first time I have read this part of Isaiah and fear its strength, my stomach feels knotted.
• Please read the whole chapter, and more as needed

“But because the rest of you have forsaken the Lord and have forgotten his Temple, and because you have prepared feasts to honor the god of Fate and have offered mixed wine to the god of Destiny, now I will ‘destine’ you for the sword.   All of you will bow down before the executioner.  For when I called, you did not answer.  When I spoke, you did not listen  You deliberately sinned—before my very eyes— and chose to do what you know I despise.”

Have not put interpretation, or application on this!

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our islamic brethren

dream

I was within a corporate building upon a floor with lots of rooms and offices.  Within one of these rooms I was speaking with a young lady, of the Islamic faith, who I used to work with in the kitchen of a nursing home.  As we spoke my left arm rested atop her right arm, including our hands.  In knew in this acton great affection was being expressed.

interpretation

According to muslim dream symbolism, limbs represent family amd arms brotherhood.   A muslim to dream of holding a woman represents loving the world and rejecting the afterlife.  However this dream, if of God cannot be viewed this way.

• The dream is not specific to this lady, her image was used because she is one of the few Muslim I personally know.
• Women represent God's people, thus the context here is people of the Islamic sphere.  They are people he is seeking.

Thus, this dream is a parable in nature.  It challenges people who profess Christ to treat Islamic people as God does, as his family regardless of your views on reconciliation.  It also challenges people of the Islamic faith to see God as relational, to reject the world and embrace eternal life.  Both are counter cultural.

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ephesians

When Paul wrote to God’s people of Ephesus, he praised God.  Why?

• God blesses us with every spiritual blessing because we are united with Christ. 

God loved us and adopted us into his own family, by making us holy and without fault in his eyes through Christ...

• Who is part of God's family? [LINK]

Paul then explains God’s plan regarding Christ:

1. Everything would be brought together under Christ’s authority
2. We receive an inheritance from God because we are united with Christ
3. United Jews and Gentiles into one people by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations and thus all who hear the truth about Jesus, and believe, bring praise and glory to God

• What is God's plan? 
• What did we receive and who received it?
• How did Jesus do this?
• What are the implications?

God put everything under Christ’s authority.  He is the head of everything for the benefit of the church (his body).

• Who belongs to God’s family?
• Who does the church need to be led by in order for it to benefit?
• What are the implications when we place someone or something as the head of the church?

Therefore Paul begs people to lead lives worthy of being called by God. To always be humble, gentle, patient, make allowances for one other’s faults, and united in peace.  Why?  There is one body (church), one Spirit, one hope for the future, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father.

• What is your calling? A ministry or that Christ calls us to follow him?  Explain
• If we choose to follow then how should we live?  Read also 1Corinthians13
• Why?

However, he gave each one of us a special gift through Christ: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.

• Does this mean each individual receives these things directly.  Or something else?
• What is their responsibility?
• Who are these gifts for?  Why?
• How should the success of these gifts be measured?
• What is the responsibility of God's people?
• How long will this exercise take?  What does that look like?
• How can success be measured?

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

If God’s people do what God asks of them and are equipped by the ‘fivefold ministries’ to do so … what will the church look like

What is Christ’s role in all this?  What are the implications for us?

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are you an intecessor?

An intercessor as defined in church terminology is a person who goes to God on behalf of someone else (e.g. in prayer or request) to seek something for them. It is generally understood that intercession is a God-given calling or role.

But is this true?

Are only some people called to be intercessors or is it the responsibility of all of God’s people?  Indeed, is intercession a special gift at all?

• What does Paul mean when he asks the church of Ephesus to be persistent in their prayers for all believers everywhere (Eph 6)?
• If Paul is considered an intercessor why would he ask for others to pray for him too (Eph 6:19; Col 4:3; 1Thes 5:25; Heb 13:18)?
• What does Paul mean when he asks Timothy to pray for all people, to ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them?  Or to encourage people generally to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy (1Tim 2:1-8)?
• What about Jesus asking us to pray for those who are against us (Mt 5:44)?
• Why are we asked to pray for one another at all (Jam 5:16)?

If it true that God send his Spirit to some key chosen people, why is it that Jesus sent God’s Spirit to all believers so all could understand God’s will and interact with him personally and directly?  If God is trying to communicate with all his people, then it is possible for anyone to reveal what God wants, to intercede.

Yet, regardless of all this, the one thing above all we must remember is that there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.

And as such, how did Jesus intercede?  He took on the sins of people so they could be forgiven, no longer to be punished for them.  He took on the responsibility for what others had done, so they would not becausevthey could not.

Is this the kind of intercession we see in the church?  This willingness to be sacrificed so others may lice.

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who are God's gifts for?

Read Ephesians 4

• Christ gave the church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
• Why?
  › To equip God’s people so they can to do his work and build up the church.
• Why?
  › Because as each does their own special work, it helps others grow, enabling the whole church to be healthy, grow, and full of love.
• How long will this continue?
  › Until we all come to unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son. That is, we are mature, full and complete like Christ.
  › We are no longer influenced by false teachings that sound like the truth. Instead we will speak the truth in love, growing more like Christ.

It is sometimes suggested that God gives people, specifically christians, spiritual gifts. Examples of these are found in the New Testament, with Ephesians 4 (above), Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12 being the main ones. This list is probably not an exhaustive one. Please note that each of these three all are introduced by a description of the unity and diversity in the body of Christ.

who are God's gifts for?
A quick definition is that the gifts God gives enable his people to do the things he needs to happen.

• Does this mean they are spiritual or practical gifts?
• Does God only give them to church people or anyone who follows Jesus Christ?
• Are they for the benefit of the person who is given the gift or for someone else?

The purpose of this message is to explore the third question: are the gifts God gives for the person he gives them to or for others.
People who suggest God's gifts, spiritual or otherwise, and whoever they are given to, are for the benefit of the receiver tend to justify this by claiming that having a gift:

• Gives you purpose; gives you a reason to get out of bed in the morning
• Helps you in personal ways (worship, understand people, heal, etc)
• Enables you to feel special or even loved
• Helps improve you intellectually and/or morally
• Proves you are 'saved' or 'filled by God's spirit'
• Helps increase your power and influence or helps draw attention to your importance

What is common between the following passages of the bible (1Co12:7; Eph 4:12; 1Pe 4:10)? Do they recommend seeking gifts from God to benefit yourself or others?

conclusion

So are any of these reasons valid? Yes, all except the last wherein attention needs to be directed to God as they are his gifts, his power, his influence. And yet the yes is a qualified yes. A trumpet does not own the breath given it anymore than we do what is given us. The air does not belong to the trumpet. The gift is not yours. Nor is the input of the air what was intended, rather the sound out the other end. The music.

Moreover, if the music cannot be heard, no matter how gifted the musician, what was the point? So could be said of God's gifts. He invests them in you so others can be affected. And in the case of Ephesians 4, he enables some to equip others, who may then affect even more.

 The question then is who are these other people?

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winds of change

"I still hold out hope that one day the wind will change back."

adapted from an article written by Ron McGatlin 

"I still hold out hope that one day the wind will change back."

what is church ministry?

• Grow in numbers?
• Improve its activities and services?
• Perform benevolent acts?
• Have greater prosperity?
• Do more and better evangelism?
• To heal people physically, emotionally, and spiritually?

These are a few examples of the results of the ecclesia (church), but they are not the goal. The goal is Christ dwelling among his people, who as a result mature with his character and nature, in the world, producing God’s kingdom and righteousness.

• This is the work of his Spirit and not a work of our efforts (Romans 8:11; Galatians 5:22)
• The love of Christ flowing from a pure heart is the most powerful world changing force.  Fear, pride, lust, greed, envy, and every evil work can be overpowered by love from a pure hearted people touching and changing our household and those who abide within then spilling out to the world (1 Timothy 1:5).

embracing the original goals

The love and gifts flowing through relationship are becoming the primary structure replacing institutional structure (e.g. intimacy with God, Father's love, "Christ in you", transformation, reformation, church without walls, etc).

We are learning that we do not "go to church" nor "join a church", but we are "added to the church". We are the church. In a way christians are taught about the church being a 'priesthood of the believer'.  However, we have not fully acted upon this understanding. The gap between the officials (pastor, priest, elders, bishop, etc) and the ordinary person continues to prevent us from fully enabling the priesthood of all believers.

 

systems, not the church will end

In the confusion of transition some think anarchy and rebellion are coming against the church and attempting to throw off leadership (e.g pastors and elders). If there are, they are wrong. The new paradigm will bring forth many times more gifted men and women who have in the passing systems been relegated to pew sitting, or limited jobs.

leadership and headship differences

There is one human head of the ecclesia (church). No one man stands as head over the church, local, regionally, or universally. No priest, pastor, or pope.  Nor does anyone represent the head to the mature believers.  The head is Christ Jesus.

Leadership simply means those further down the road on which we all are walking. The mature lead the immature until they are matured, then they lead other immature people, in turn.  How? By helping people to clearly hear God and live as he asks.

The term the bible uses is elder.  An elder has nothing to do with an office or official role. Elders lead by example, training and assisting the immature.  Elders:

• shepherd and oversee
• allow people to observe them and their lives, then
  
• release the maturing disciples to do the work while they watch, then
• leave them to do the work, themself now considered mature, an elder

don't to be mislead

• by reactions of people who fear losing the systems that have served them for so long, or
• by those who attempt to repackage the passing system practices with new labels
• by worring about where people gather, for our man-made traditions work whatever the venue (e.g. traditional church, a house, at work).

The move is about Christ truly becoming the head in a practical real way and not just in word only.

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