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Showing posts with label 4walls. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 4walls. Show all posts

9 Dec 2012

Am reading the NT and re-encountered the part about eating foods offered to idols ...
  • Knowledge leads to self-importance whereas love strengthens the church
  • That not all believers know that there is one Father and one Jesus and therefore they continue to think that idols are real
  • As such they, for example, will see certain foods that were associated with these idols (before becoming believers) as still attached to their worship
  • Thus if they see anyone eating these foods it will create confusion: "How can you eat that, you are a believer, and now you are worshiping this false god"
  • This confusion may then lead the new believer to eat the food they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them

NOW ... my musing is how this relates to today ... specifically:

  • That not all believers know that since Jesus' death and resurrection there is no need to go to the mountain altars or city temples to worship because as he resides in us and we in him, we are free to worship anywhere anytime in truth and spirit.
  • Indeed many believers continue to believe that attending a specific building is the only place, or brings validity to worship
  • Hence, if they become aware that you are not attending a building or belong to a specific group it will create confusion: "How can you worship that way?" "If you are a believer, how can you claim authority or protection?" etc.
  • For these believers, the confusion they feel could result in feeling they are being asked to do something they believe is wrong and therefore cause them to break their own conscience if they left their regular place of worship

The point I end my musings (at least in writing) is that I do not how to reconcile the final part ... suggestions please

So Paul says, it is better to forever more not eat that food rather than cause that confusion in them...

19 Oct 2012

Please first read Colossians 1

Are all people made holy through Christ?  Is he reconciling all creation to Him?  If so, then how are we to understand Ephesians 4?

Apostles. Prophets. Evangelists. Teachers. Pastors.  These are the five roles given for the equipping of the saints.  But pause for a moment ... are these words accurate translations?

Saints ... This is an English word used to translate the Greek word meaning sacred or holy.  It is the same word always used to refer to the Holy Spirit and Holy Scriptures.  As such, it is not surprising to see it in terms of God's holy people or saints.  But is that what has occurred here?  Does the next part of the passage which refers to doing the work of the ministry only refer to believers?

Equipping ...  To provide whatever is needed to make something perfect, mature, full.
Consider for a moment (John 14-15, Rom 2, Heb 8-10, Col 1) ... According to Jesus, truth and spirit influences everything and everywhere, whether or not it recognises it as doing so.  Therefore, what would happen if  this understanding were placed into the Ephesians passage?

The five roles were provided by God so everyone (and everything) God considers holy could be made perfect, mature, full in every way.

This is significant because it suggests that apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, and pastors were not sent for Christians.  Rather, they were sent for all creation, every part of it, including everyone regardless of their faith, experience of God, or acknowledgement of Him.

Could it be God is prepared to interact directly with people?  Could it be that people are not obligated to go to designated Christian places and spaces?  Could it be that we are to go to them?

17 Jul 2012

God why are your people so confused? Why do we prefer to choose a life of niceties and self protection and justify it with the name of your son?  Why are we so ready to reject your reality?  Why do we call comfort and preference faith?

Why do we insist on giving all our time to people who are either like us, don't threaten us, or serve our self interests?  Please God bring our enemies, strangers, foreigners, the unlovable into our lives in such a way we cannot ignore them.  Open our eyes to what it means to reject you when we reject those you love.

Are you serious when you said you would vomit up the luke warm?  What about when you stated that anyone who does not love what you love hates you?  Is it true for you to not know us even as we go about your business?

Please God, don't leave us to our own self indulgences.  Please do something, anything to wake us up.  Please bring us to our senses.

God end our addiction to doing things our way.  Give us revelation to the dangers of pursuing sectarianism before it is too late.  Before the ground opens up beneath us, turn us around.  God teach us to see one another as family, to stop the finger pointing at our neighbours who we have labelled as heathens.  Indeed, please teach us to see one another.

Why do we justify our theological differences when you told us there is oneness in your body?  Why do we allow them to fester to the point of splits, starting something new, and mocking others?  God, what will it take for us to desire a path of healing from our family dysfunctions?

God, Please encourage us to stand by our brothers and sisters.  I am sorry that although my eyes were opened I stand back.  Should I limit my actions to prayer with the hope you will one day resolve our bickering and tribalism?  Or is there something you want me to do?  It breaks my heart to witness our situation.  Please open our eyes.  Please stoke or hearts.

"But don't we pray for other churches?  Don't our leaders gather?  Don't we celebrate at joint events or with visiting speakers?"

Why does it frustrate me to hear people claim that "All is well" or "the church has no real significant differences?"  How can this be true when there are dozens of denominations and hundreds of congregations who were formed on the basis of theological disagreement to the point where many won't even talk with one another.  How can this be a reflection of being one as you and your son are one?  Surely if there are no real differences it wouldn't matter where people go to gather and gain discipleship.  Isn't the same gospel being shared, the one Jesus, one Spirit, Father, etc?

Why have we convinced ourselves that the group we belong to is better than others?  Why have we convinced ourselves that our group has the real and exclusive truth?  Why do our elders compete for your flock, indeed compete for the right to rule your kingdom?  Should we remain silent or have we entered the guilt of enabling and cheering?  Are we to leave our family to their own devices?  How will you view us if we do?  Thank you for sending your son so we wouldn't perish.  Please God open our ears to the truth that comforts as opposed to simply seeking comfort.

28 Apr 2012

These are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
(Ephesians 4:12-13)


It was Saturday (daytime). I was standing out front of a facility that combined the Australian Institute of Sport (A) and Canberra University (B) (see figure below). Though Sunday church services were still held here, albeit with smaller attendances, already half the seats were full with couples, singles, groups, kids, and older people. Many others continued to arrive, and some by bus. The region people walked through was similar to walking from College Road through the Canberra University car parks onto the campus.


 

Now, while the pastor was preaching, it was unclear as to whether a guest speaker was present or not. In the crowd someone spoke of how many were from the Christian City Church Belconnen; led by Nick at a Pub.  A red haired lady inquired where I was from, to which I responded: “I started at CCC Dickson PM, then CCC Kaleen (night and day), and now this is my home.”
details
  • This was indeed the history of my church attendances at the time, but I had never spent time at this location
  • There is  a man named Nick who heads the CCC Belconnen group.  It's location is next to door a pub
  • Plan is to go speak with this group (date 28 April 2012)

application
Be confident! Being part of the Church of Canberra is a destiny of greatness. God intends that we integrate into a complete body: equipping people in both mind, body and soul, to be mature disciples who can discern and apply the abilities they are given.
  • Encourage people to pursue the work God calls them to do
  • Release apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers so they would, together, equip people to achieve such work (this is why they exist)
  • Persist until there is oneness in faith and knowledge in Jesus
  • Persevere until God’s people has attained maturity as measured by Christ

26 Mar 2012

11:31 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
Have you ever heard someone ask which church do you belong?  Has someone said "would you like to find out how to become a member, or what it means to be a member of this congregation?

Reminded of this this morning as listening to an invite to a "New Friends" dinner.  Also, happens regularly at work when discussing what we did on the weekend.

As we know from scripture, as believers in Christ, as his followers, we enter into his people.  We become a member.  We enter into his church, his body.  As such you can never be late to church, never be absent, or on holiday.

So to ask which church we belong to is a redundant question.  All believers belong to the same church.  So the question must be being asked in terms of which tribe do you belong.  Okay we already trust in this.

But what is rattling around in me is the flip-side of that coin.  Since we are of the one body, to love put this reality means being able to enter into any tribal gathering in peace.  Why?  Because we already belong.  It is therefore possible to see and live in such a way that these are my people though they may not accept me in return.

The other point is that when a congregation speaks of membership what do they mean?  Are they speaking of people who turn up (attend) or those who are pursuing Him?   Thus, on Sunday there may be 200 people in the room, but maybe only 1 or 2 followers.  Indeed, this can be true of those called elders and leaders etc.

But here too what do our eyes see?  Unbelievers, the lost, the distracted, the tribal, or people who Christ still died for?  Do they treat his sacrifice in vain?  Maybe but is that our call when restoration always is possible

Should we accept the dysfunctions of today's tribal church?  No.  But then ask, if sectarianism is not God's will, and a house divided is bound to fall, then, maybe we need to approach our church family as we would any other person.

If sunday services, as they stand today, are the same in essence as any other sphere, broken, and we are to live as Christ did/does, then we need to be about pointing to the exit door in the knowledge that all systems are already destroyed.

14 Mar 2012

10:34 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , ,
GALILEO (Rome 1610)
What did Jesus mean when he said people no longer need to go to the Temple of Jerusalem or the altars of the mountains to worship?  But instead the Father seeks people to worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4).

Is it possible that church is something other than a building we go to on Sundays to listen to a message about God?  And if so, could church be something beyond Sunday itself?
Have another read of the New Testament.  Search words like "body" and "temple" and consider those passages that use them as analogies to people who believe in Christ.  What is being shared?

Could church simply be who we are because of who God is?

And if so, then this applies to anyone including yourself.  Now ask, when was the last time you stopped being you?  Indeed, will you ever stop being you before death?  In short, you are always you, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  And as such, church being people exists all the time: at a Sunday service, at the shops, at work, walking the dog, eating breakfast.  Yes, even while you sleep.

One more step, with a deep breath.

The bible repeatedly refers to individuals who are reconciled with God as His children.  Likewise the bible refers to groups as children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ.  What does this make you think of?  Where do you hear terms like father, brother, sister, children, etc?  Family.

In addition, what was intended by Jesus’ death and resurrection?  What does it mean when an act applies once and for all (Hebrews 10)?  What does it mean when a gift is given free of charge (Romans 6)?  Use a dictionary to learn what it means to redeem something (Luke 1)?

Was this only applicable to the people alive ca.33AD?  Did it apply to people who later heard the message, also at that time?  What about today?  If Jesus’ sacrifice to free people really was a once only action, are people free because they believe it happened or simply because it happened?

And, if people are free because it simply happened, then who are free?  Christians? Everyone? Christians who do and say the right things? Buddhists? Muslims? Hindus? Catholics?  Anglicans? Pentecostals? Atheists? Who? This is not a comment on what a person does with their freedom.  The question is whether or not people need to do something to gain their freedom.

Take care.  There was once a time when you too did not acknowledge God as being real, let alone what he did for you.

Remember, have another read of the story about the prodigal son (Luke 15).  Did the son ever stop being a son?  What does that imply for Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Anglicans, Pentecostals, atheists, etc?  How does our idea of who is part of, or excluded from, God's family match up with his?

Review …
  • If church is who we are because of who God is, then there are implications for when and where church occurs.
  • If church is God's family we need to better understand who he considers is part of it.
  • If we are not upholding God’s values then we must ask ourselves what we are really doing.

6 Feb 2012

Having a chat with a colleague today who shared something very interesting.  She grew up within the Anglican church, then known as the Church of England, she attended every Sunday as was Sunday school teacher for many years.  However, over time she saw the hypocrisy and institutional nature of the church.  Not wanting to abandon God or Jesus who she still loves dearly, she discovered the Buddhist faith to which she now adheres.
This discussion is unfinished, but what stood out was NOT a rejection of God, but a deep desire to stay true while the church of man world around her failed.

Yes, it could be argued she should have persevered, or her faith was weak, etc.
But was it?  Is it?

I believe what she is sharing is a GREAT desire to be in God's kingdom.  However, the culture of the man's church demands or expects certain things of us we just cannot swallow.  And as there are few to no real, authentic alternatives, some people look further afield.

Jesus said when he was on earth that Gods flock was scattered and without a shepherd.  He also asks his people to share that work, both in the old and new testaments.

What would it be like to live in a world where people are like shepherd without a shepherd?  Would Jesus see this in the same light as he did the Pharisees and Sadducees?  Is this lady alone in her plight?

27 Jan 2012

If God desires there be no division between his people, where do denominational groupings within the church fit? What about those who are called believers and unbelievers

Paul appealed people to live in harmony with each other, without divisions in the church. To be of one mind, united in thought and purpose... Some claimed to be a follower of Paul, others Apollos, others Peter, or only Christ. But Christ is not divided into factions. Nor Paul crucified for you? (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)

After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. It’s not important who did what, but rather that God makes the seed grow. (1 Corinthians 3:5-16)

How does this apply when people say “I am a Baptist,” “I am Catholic", or “I adhere to no set denomination”, etc?

Was your minister, pastor, priest, mentor crucified for you?

If Christ is not divided into different groups, what are we doing?

If Jesus ended division by terminating the system of law with its commandments and regulations, then are the requirements we expect of people to belong relevant? If not, what do they do? How?

What are we to make of the promise of Christ in that there is nothing a person needs to do for God to forgive and embrace them? For all people? For all time?

Does placing requirements on people to belong create barriers to what God wants to do?

What are the commandments and regulations the church imposes today to belong? 
Consider things such as attendance of services, how we speak, what we wear, who we interact with, permitted activities, etc. Consider things such as how to pray, worship styles, or what it means to become saved.

What are the alternatives?

5 Dec 2011



The following is a response to a spoken message by Tony Rainbow of Victory Church (Adelaide, Australia) to the people of Fusion City Church (Palmerston, Canberra - Australia)

audio link

introduction
Tony began by stating how there were about 120 believers gathered in one place after Christ's ascension (Acts 1:13-15). It was to these people Peter stood and spoke.

Please note this is the only scripture Tony uses during his entire message.

However, rather than putting this into the context of Jesus having asked them to stay in the city until they received the gift of the Spirit, Tony spoke of the significance of the number 120 in relation to human group dynamics:
  • Ignores the broader church by prioritising the local
  • Had it all together relationally
  • Were all at everything which was connected with Jesus' training
  • Relationships were like a family
  • The leadership style was casual and collaborative
  • Communication was informal and face to face
  • There was an ease in how they gathered
  • Everyone knew each other by name
But are these statements interpreted upon the bible itself or assumptions about small group dynamics?   For instance, where in the bible is proof that this or any other group knew the names of all their companions?  Indeed, was the group fluid, did people come and go?  Did anyone ever disagree on matters about God?

Instead, Tony suggests that these group characteristics, while being "the most awesome thing that could ever happen." But the problem comes when we "set this as the goal, we set a ceiling to the growth of the church, because that style of church only works with a certain number of people."

But why?  This assumption occurs when it is presumed people intended to continue gathering in groups of this size.  Why?  Because, the argument being made is to correlate church growth today with a particular gathering 2000+ years ago.

Where in this gathering is the evidence to suggest anyone intended to continue gathering in this way? What about other gathered people in the bible? Where during Jesus' life did he ever model this?

Why do people today find it necessary to justify church growth in terms of the number of people gathered?


bad logic

Arguments that try to build upon faulty assumptions tend to have personal agendas or opinions behind them. Why? Because the conclusion was considered before the evidence was sought.  Consequently, proof tends to be biased to justify seeing what we want to see.  Worse is when the bible is quoted in order to not only support the argument but actually pose it as God's idea in the first place.  The logic is: because scripture is "Holy Spirit inspired", "God's word", etc, then an argument no matter how flawed, given enough quotes, must be true.

This has occurred here with Tony.

Rarely do we allow God's word to speak for itself.

terra nullus
A further assumption being made by Tony is churches today are local in nature.  That is, a church is defined by the people who gather for services in a particular location. Yes, local churches today often have attendances of 80-150 people. However, what we forgot or ignore is local churches do not start, let alone grow, in a state of terra nullus. We falsely assume the territory our local church occupies or entered (planted) was not previously inhabited.

Was your church the first in the area you live?

And, if it was indeed a pioneer: was God there beforehand, or did God only start working in the lives of people when your church was established?

Sometimes it is a challenge to remember that your local church is but one of many, even within a few street blocks. And regionally, one among many many more.  No local church is an island unto itself.  As such, the church to which you belong is not 30, 80, or 120, but could actually be populated by many thousands.

misdirection
Tony: "Who wants the church ... to grow?  Most people want the church to grow but get stuck at a certain number.”

Tony: Churches get stuck at 150 or less because this is “about the most number of people a person can connect with.  Thus people naturally feel displaced once their group reaches 50-150 people.”

This argument continues to push the idea that church growth is about the number of people who attend a service or the number of people who choose to be members a local church.

How does God consider growth?  Is it about numbers or about invisible things like character?

If there are 100 people in a room singing hymns and listening to a message from the pulpit, how many claim to know God?  How many does God know?  Indeed, does God know anyone who is not in attendance?  Does he know them if they never attend a local church anywhere?  Is that enough?

Furthermore, if the church is indeed more than the local, how do comments like the one Tony raises, redirect how we view the importance of God dwelling among his people?

Finally, I put it to you feeling uncomfortable (displaced) is natural whenever we interact with another person.  The size of the group is irrelevant.  What matters is how you treat each person as they come.  Group size never dictates your relationship.

For a moment revisit Tony's conclusions about group dynamics in a personal way:
  • Are all the relationships you have with people in your church fully healthy?
  • Do you attend everything your church offers?  Do you need to?
  • Do people in your church treat you like family?
  • Is the leadership style of your church casual?  Does it seek guidance of other members?
  • Do you communicate with people informally and face-to-face?
  • Is interacting with people in your church effortless?
  • Do you know everyone in your local church by name?
What does it mean if your church has less than 150 people and the answer to any of these questions 'no'? At the very least it means that group size does not determine our behaviour and attitudes.

What does help shape our behaviour and attitudes?

size culture preference
Tony: "Size in numbers is connected with a size culture needing to be broken,”

Tony: “The main problem to growth is size culture preference,”

Tony: “Bigger change is needed (when) shifting from one size to another within the same denomination (than it is to shift between) denominations of the same size.”

When read in isolation, each of these statements is accurate.  We need to become free to be God’s people no matter how big or small the group of people gathered is.  Unfortunately, this is not the context Tony is suggesting, as shown below.

What was Jesus’ focus?  Did he come for the whole world or was it dependent upon the number of people gathered, the church size?

Why did Jesus so often avoid crowds?

 be big or be small
The following is a list of differences between small and larger churches.  The argument posed was churches with large numbers of people (more than 150) need to do things differntly to smaller ones.  Hence, to grow, a church must change the way it does things.  In short, population size affects activity.  An additional conseuqence of this idea is that smaller congregations are inherently different.  But given churches, no matter their size have people in them, is this accurate?

1.  smaller churches are less complex than larger gatherings because as the group size increases…
  • The less we will have in common with one another.
But, how does this match with what is written in Ephesians 4?
  • Not everything can happen in one Sunday service anymore (e.g. prayer is shifted to prayer meetings, exploring the word to a bible school, discipleship into home groups).
But how could everything occur during a single church service anyway, regardless of its size? What about evangelism, or family, or helping neighbours, etc?  In other words, how does delegating what daily life to set times and facilitators help?  How could you for instance pray, understand God’s word, or disciple others at home, work, school, wherever you are during your week?

2.  smaller churches need less production effort than larger churches
  • The more people involved, the more planning, lead time, etc is required to enable services and other activities to occur.  Events can no longer simply be thrown together as they are were with smaller gatherings.
To what extent are these events really necessary?  Are buildings, electronic audio devices, instruments, putting out chairs, etc essential to what God needs to do?  How do similar activities occur in parts of the world where money is non-existent?  Did Jesus live this way?  For Jesus, which came first, his mission or his method?
  • Smaller churches don't value the importance of quality of their activities as much as larger churches.  For example, because they embrace people, they permit anyone to sing and play an instrument regardless of their ability. 
Good.  The day we prefer how good a song sounds over the willingness of people to worship God and embrace one another, will be a sad day indeed.  To worry whether visitors are “put-off” based upon singing ability says more about how people view us, than our desire to be in God's presence.  To believe singing ability affects whether people have a “poor” or good impression of the pastor's message, or will “attract people or not” is naive at best (1 Corinthians 2).

3.  the ministry roles of smaller churches are not as specialised as those of larger churches
  • Small church ministries generalise what they do whereas larger churches specialise. 
Again, this is not a matter of scale.  God gives his gift for the entire church.  Hospitality, prophesy, teaching, etc are not dependent upon how many people are gathered but who needs to be equipped so they may do what God asks of them.  Why?  Because there are other people who either don’t know him or still need help to grow personally and as a community.
  • Only one person who can bring leadership and direction to this church. Thus it is an indictment (strong wrongdoing) for this person to do tasks that others could do. 
Christ and Christ alone is the one and only leader and director of the church.  Placing a person as the sole hearer and interpreter of God's word is dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  It encourages a false separation among God's people which may cause some to shirk their responsibility to speak with and listen to God directly, and others to not discern or question what they are told to believe and do.

4.  small groups of people do not experience changes to the same degree as bigger groups
  • Because not everyone will agree on the course of action to be taken, power to decide
    needs to move away from the congregation
    (all people) to a leadership team (a few).  This will enable decisions to be made more quickly.
Yes, absolutely, there will be times when, maybe every time, when disagreement will occur.  But to justify this as the reason for concentrating this priveledge in the hands of a few has the potential to ignore insight.  At the very least sharing our differences, in a manner that is respectful of others, helps to bring us closer together.  If nothing else, it evidences the contempt and lack of trust some church leaders and pastors have for people.

To simply claim possession of the decision making for yourself is again dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  Why? People are being asked to rely on Man rather than seek God, together.  The outcome, people are shaped in the image of the decision makers and not God.

So the next time you are invited to seek God about a decision, discern whether your consultation is genuinely being sought: are opposing views listened to and acted upon?  How is the decision to be made proposed: does it sound like they just want agreement on  something they have already decided on? Is there a personal agenda hidden among words that try to convince you that what is being presented is really God's vision?
  • When people leave because of the changes, this proves the church is growing.
Why?  What if you are wrong and they were right?  Was consultation ever permitted?  Maybe people are leaving for totally unrelated reasons.  Are people who stay encouraged to speak with those who leave to find out why?
  • There needs to be greater emphasis on vision and strength... churches need to do fewer things so they can do them well.  Likewise a church shouldn't try to do everything in the community, but try to do some things really well.  Both of these will depend upon the existing skill set and gift set.
While there is some truth in this, it ignores that regardless of the church size, there may never be every skill and gift available for what God is desiring to do.  It is not enough to limit what can be done based upon the resources available.  Doing this reveals a belief that we can do things in isolation and in our own strength.  Let us start by seeking God about what he is doing and how we need to grow and be equipped to accomplish it.  If this includes  cooperating with people outside our group, so be it.

conclusion
  • What does God consider important when it comes to growth?
  • Are we lending ourselves to a culture of self, preference, and prejudice?
  • Should what we do be a by-product of the size of our church group or should what we do be a product of who we are in Christ?

5 Aug 2007

2:09 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

Chris Brogden: "It is the position of the author that a believer who is standing on the ground of Christ and has seen the body (church) cannot but renounce denominationalism. The reason is because we must receive all whom God receives. If the Life of God is found in them, we will receive them as brethren (family) and not make peripheral issues the basis of our joining or not joining with them.  While we cannot render (give) support to a church or group which meets on sectarian ground, we can and will receive the individual members who desire our fellowship on a basis of Christ.  Jesus is building his church upon
the foundation of himself. This is the only safe ground to build or stand upon."

introduction
It is important to distinguish between God's invisible, universal, spiritual church (ecclesia) and church in the form of a non-profit religious organisation. Sure, religious groups may  assemble, elect leaders, receive money, have membership requirements, and govern themselves in the manner they see fit. This is a civil right.

But is this absolute truth, scriptural, or mandated by God?

And either way, who created the ecclesia (church) man or God?  Was it intended to be an organisation, an organism, or can the church be both?

This aside, whenever we attach spiritual or scriptural significance to cultural norms, religious traditions, organisational structures, and places of meeting we tend to blur the line between what we do and who we are.  This opens us to being spiritually abused and ruled, such as when:
  • The pastor of a local church becomes a profession instead of a calling, or
  • The church government a democracy or lead by a single pastor or church board instead of being a spirit-led consensus
2:08 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

Why do people usually join an organisation such as a club?

Usually it is because we can justify the price paid for becoming a member by the benefits we will get by belonging.  However, we need to remember that the organisation itself also benefits.  For instance, a sports club benefits charging and collecting dues from its membership to pay for staff, executive officers, facilities, marketing, other projects, etc.

Likewise, whether realistic, fair, or scripturally justified when we choose to "join a local church"  that church, if operating as an organised religion, will gain from your membership by expecting:
  • Financial support       Members are expected to make donations in the form of tithes, offerings, love gifts, fundraisers, pledges, building funds, etc
  • Leadership support    Members are expected to agree with the stated mission of the local church and its pastor
  • Doctrinal support        Members are expected to adhere to the stated spiritual philosophy and teachings of the church and/or denomination
  • Attendance support   Members are expected to be present at a majority of services and functions
  • Volunteer support      Members are expected to donate their time and volunteer in whatever capacity is needed
  • Also, the church has greater control over its membership by meting out discipline when someone goes astray in one or more of the above areas
THEN, in return for this allegiance, members, the people of the congregation may receive:
  • A vote in major decisions (e.g. picking a pastor),
  • A say-so in some financial matters,
  • The privilege of being in leadership (e.g. Sunday school teacher, worship leader, etc.)
Is getting a small part in the political process of church government a fair exchange for the time, money, cooperation and amount of individual control you must relinquish?
2:07 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

REMEMBER: When you consider the spiritual benefits of joining a local church, remember that you are already joined to the Body of Christ, the ecclesia.  As such you already have every spiritual benefit of being a member in God's church. The only requirement for such membership is a new birth (glossary).  There is no responsibility but to abide in Christ.

Joining a church may be good, proper, beneficial, and moral, but it is not a condition of salvation, thus it is not a condition for being a follower of Jesus (christian).

Many believe we are saved by grace because we are unable to achieve it by anything we do.  However, we quickly allow ourselves to be convinced by that we must do things to keep, maintain, or improve, that which is freely ours. For instance, we are instructed to pray, read the Bible, join a church, give to the work of the Lord, witness to people, stop doing so and so, start doing this and that, etc.

These things are not wrong.  However, when the message is to do “X” and don’t do “Y”, the result is people who are trying to please God. We couldn't please God as sinners, so why do we now believe, as christians, it is our duty to please Him.

How easy it is to unwittingly return to a works-oriented faith.
2:05 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

If we are one with the head (Jesus), we are one with the body (church), even if we are not gathered together. But, if we are not one with the head, we are not one with the body, even if we are gathered together. Hence we can have fellowship with one another whether we are attending a church building or not.

Can you meet with people, and even make friends without actually joining a local church?

If you do, are you any less part of the church?

A common term for people who don't join a specific local church is “church hoppe”. They are viewed people who flit between groups, in the hope of finding the perfect pastor, music program, youth group, etc. They are criticised for their unrealistic expectations and lack of commitment. Yes, some are so obsessed with their needs and wants that they will never be satisfied and will forever remain uncommitted.

But is this always true? Ask them of their personal history with churches.
  • What are seeking?
  • Why are they unwilling or unable to commit to church membership?
  • Are they wary of churches generally because of regular spiritual and emotional abuse?
  • Are the churches they have visited cold, aloof, or cliquish?
Why do we turn the fact that they are even attempting to connect somewhere into something negative?

Among growth-oriented churches the goal is to persuade you to join the local church because attendance is the next logical step. However once you do join, the honeymoon is over. The list of expectations, rules, regulations, and by-law appear. You are educated in what is considered acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and your performance is  measured in terms of dollars contributed, services attended, and hours volunteered.

This is not suggesting there is a conspiracy, only how easy it is for the generally accepted attitudes, traditions, rituals and practices of organised religion to quickly deteriorate into something other than what God has in mind for a community of believers.

In short, the way we go about “doing” church is far removed from what “being” the church is all about. Church as most people know it today has become a business, social, or legal arrangement, not a community or family.
2:03 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

The one right way to leave is by way of Christ.

To leave because of hurt, bitterness, dissatisfaction with the status quo, rebellion, or anything short of seeing Christ is to be in a precarious situation. If our experiences drive us into a depression and unforgiveness, then all meaning and purpose for the experience is lost. On the other hand, if our disenchantment, disillusionment, and despair drive us deeper into Christ, we will find healing through Him and we will be enabled to extend grace to those who persecute us.

To stop attending church services, or to stay, apart from revelation, apart from seeing Christ and his body, based only upon the word of some man or group, no matter how true, is not sufficient to escape.  Others may bring us out, but they cannot bring the institutional lifestyle out of us.  This is God's work.

With an awareness of the Body, fellowship is no longer restricted to time, place, church, or denomination, thus opportunities for fellowship abound. But with no consciousness of the Body, only an awareness of our personal pain and harsh treatment at the hands of a few, our defense mechanisms will prevent us from seeking out fellowship or risking further hurt by engaging other believers.

When we enter this Body consciousness we will not find it necessary to stand guard continually and purposely resist all attempts to institutionalise us in the name of God. We don't have to fear what man may do to us. When we have seen Christ and his church, anyone attempting to lord over, corral, enclose, intimidate, manipulate, unlawfully influence, or exert his or her spiritual whims on us is rebuffed with a calm, quiet spirit.

This experiential knowledge of Christ will also enable us to recognize him in others, and call upon us to enter into fellowship with brothers and sisters of all backgrounds. We will not be overly critical or unnecessarily suspicious. The anointing will teach us and lead us into proper relationships with others in the Body. No more will we judge others or restrict ourselves to our little home group, church, or denomination. Our basis for fellowship is Christ, and with him as our common ground we will not be uncomfortable or threatened by people of different philosophical or doctrinal nuances. Either the life is present, or it is not. If it is, we must not call unclean whom God has called clean.
2:02 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , ,
adapted from Churchianity Today by Chip Brogden

To truly come out of organised religion requires more than deciding to meet in homes or resolving to do away with the external trappings of Churchianity. Many claim to have escaped because they no longer attend church services.  But the reality is they are still living an institutional lifestyle. They have only exchanged one form of religious bondage for another.

Freedom cannot merely be reacting to the obvious wrongs perpetuated in the name of God by organised religion. It is quite possible to be out of the system but still be bound by it, still chained by bitterness and fixated with all that is wrong with the body.

Our whole goal should be to look beyond the external characteristics of how and where people worship. The only way to do this is to have an all-consuming revelation of Christ and the ecclesia, the Body, his church. Once we see that, we will understand that the external accessories of organised religion can neither help nor truly hurt.

Perhaps the fear is that once we are escaped from Churchianity we may be deceived again.  Not so with the one who has seen Christ and his church. Anyone who attempts to lord over, corral, enclose, intimidate, manipulate, unlawfully influence, or exert their spiritual whims upon us will be rebuffed with a calm, quiet spirit. Knowing the truth means seeing through the false.

Do you know something is wrong, but are unable to express what it is?

Rejoice!  This is alright.  God is not silent when something is said or done in his name that he doesn't support (e.g. a televangelist begging for more money, pastors who treat people with contempt, or prophets who speak out of personal imagination).

Are you a member of a local church and accept all that goes on there without being troubled?  Are you able to shrug it off or lightly dismiss it?

Sorry, you are far gone.  Your heart is hard.  Your ears are dull. You are blind like the Pharisees.  Your christianity may be nominal at best.  Even if you are part of a perfect local church, sorry.  The fact the church is isolated from all the others indicates a level of dysfunction.

Are you troubled by all that is proclaimed, confessed, bought and sold, taught, prophesied, promoted, and prayed about these days in Jesus’ name?

The Lord does not take it all in stride, or shrug it off. The responses of Jesus to the organised religionists of his day were many and varied. We find him ...
  • Driving the merchants out of the Temple with a scourge of cords
  • Engaging in public rejections of the Pharisees, holding them up as shining examples of what not to do
  • Being silent, hiding or departing
 

11 Nov 2006

"I still hold out hope that one day the wind will change back."
adapted from an article written by Ron McGatlin 

"I still hold out hope that one day the wind will change back."

what is church ministry?
  • Grow in numbers?
  • Improve its activities and services?
  • Perform benevolent acts?
  • Have greater prosperity?
  • Do more and better evangelism?
  • To heal people physically, emotionally, and spiritually?
These are a few examples of the results of the ecclesia (church), but they are not the goal. The goal is Christ dwelling among his people, who as a result mature with his character and nature, in the world, producing God’s kingdom and righteousness.
  • This is the work of his Spirit and not a work of our efforts (Romans 8:11; Galatians 5:22)
  • The love of Christ flowing from a pure heart is the most powerful world changing force.  Fear, pride, lust, greed, envy, and every evil work can be overpowered by love from a pure hearted people touching and changing our household and those who abide within then spilling out to the world (1 Timothy 1:5).
embracing the original goals
The love and gifts flowing through relationship are becoming the primary structure replacing institutional structure (e.g. intimacy with God, Father's love, "Christ in you", transformation, reformation, church without walls, etc).

We are learning that we do not "go to church" nor "join a church", but we are "added to the church". We are the church. In a way christians are taught about the church being a 'priesthood of the believer'.  However, we have not fully acted upon this understanding. The gap between the officials (pastor, priest, elders, bishop, etc) and the ordinary person continues to prevent us from fully enabling the priesthood of all believers.
 
systems, not the church will end
In the confusion of transition some think anarchy and rebellion are coming against the church and attempting to throw off leadership (e.g pastors and elders). If there are, they are wrong. The new paradigm will bring forth many times more gifted men and women who have in the passing systems been relegated to pew sitting, or limited jobs.

leadership and headship differences
There is one human head of the ecclesia (church). No one man stands as head over the church, local, regionally, or universally. No priest, pastor, or pope.  Nor does anyone represent the head to the mature believers.  The head is Christ Jesus.

Leadership simply means those further down the road on which we all are walking. The mature lead the immature until they are matured, then they lead other immature people, in turn.  How? By helping people to clearly hear God and live as he asks.

The term the bible uses is elder.  An elder has nothing to do with an office or official role. Elders lead by example, training and assisting the immature.  Elders:
  • shepherd and oversee
  • allow people to observe them and their lives, then
  • release the maturing disciples to do the work while they watch, then
  • leave them to do the work, themself now considered mature, an elder
don't to be mislead
  • by reactions of people who fear losing the systems that have served them for so long, or
  • by those who attempt to repackage the passing system practices with new labels
  • by worring about where people gather, for our man-made traditions work whatever the venue (e.g. traditional church, a house, at work).
The move is about Christ truly becoming the head in a practical real way and not just in word only.

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