blogger
Showing posts with label apostolic. Show all posts
Showing posts with label apostolic. Show all posts

20 Feb 2012

8:40 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , , , , ,
Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow for that certainly wouldn't benefit you (Hebrews 13:17).

warning
The following comments are not intended for anyone who lead or instruct people with a focus of wellbeing and growth for their students.  Instead they are for people whose interest is more about being followed (Jude 1).

introduction
When it comes to requiring people to do what the leaders of churches ask of them, Hebrews 13:17 (top of page) is the number one bible quote. The way it is then usually applied is:
  • Obey your spiritual leaders, do what they say, because
  • They are accountable to God for watching over your soul
  • Do this so their work is joyous and
  • If they don't feel you are doing as asked, it proves your spiritually immaturity
a moment
Is it possible for a church leader (e.g. pastor, priest, elder) to say something you don't understand?  Is it possible for them to teach something that contradicts what is in the bible? Is it possible for them to ask you to do something that goes against your conscience?

If yes, so should you agree with them anyway, hide your disagreement from others, or ask for clarity and maybe argue the alternative? What is going to help bring understanding: ignoring the disagreement, obeying something you disagree with, or asking questions and discerning intentions behind the request.

a question
Now pretend you have sought clarity from the leader, asked God, read the bible, spoken with others, etc to work out why the disagreement exists and if it is worthwhile to hold your stance.

Then pretend the leaders tells you that your actions and views proove you are immature or rebellious because God has entrusted them to look after you, and as such, ignoring their advice is therefore ignoring God.

Yes, their heart may be in the right place, motivated by the idea that one day they will stand before God and share how they looked after you.  And in a sense this is true (Mt 18:1-10). But it is true for all (leader or otherwise) who choose to point someone else in a direction to follow.

But, how does asking you to do as they say, because they hold a particular role, fit into the broader context of the bible?  Especially considering:
  • God's Spirit is continually reminding and teaching us of everything Jesus taught (Jn 14)
  • We are asked to personally embrace God’s word (Jn 15:1-17)
  • We are encourage to seek God's counsel ourselves (Mt 21:22; Lk 11:1-13)
  • What if God speaks to us directly? (John 14; Mt 1:20, 2:12; Acts 2:17)
  • Are there any other mediators between you and God than Jesus? (1Tim 2:1-7)
Do we ignore these things just because one or more people desire us to listen to them? Furthermore, and ultimately, regardless of the role God gives us:
  • We are all equal and need to treat each other with love and humility (ref)
in other words
Surely humble leaders hope those they nurture will embrace what is shared.  Not because it came from their mouth, but because their heart dwells in God's life.  Also, they would  see their own failings inluding a capactity to misunderstand what God shares or bias it with their own expectations.

Being a leader or instructor of God's ways does not rely upon saying "I am a leader of ..."  Nor does it rely upon people agreeing with you, following your wisdom, or even seeking to be in your presence.  Being a leader simply means encouraging people to seek God and copy him.  Maybe you will get to instruct how to do this.  Maybe not.

**

What does this have to do with covering and accountability?  Basically, no matter how fine they sound, it is difficult to read anything in scripture to support the way local churches define and apply them.

covering
Covering, in the church, is when a person watches over the well being of another by taking spiritual guidance for the one they are caring for. It tends to operate in a hierarchy of people watching over the ones 'beneath' until the most senior church member is reached, and then God (see figure).  In the case of a local church, this person is the head pastor or priest.  In some denominations, this continues through to leaders from the parent church. A familiar example is the pope of the Catholic church.
Does the bible support any of this?
  • Are we asked to care for one another as community or due to spiritual seniority? (Mt 22:37-40; Jn 15:9-17)
  • Should pastors or any other role be elevated above or to the exclusion of another? (Eph 4; 1Co 13)
  • Should people who instruct others be questioned about what they say? Why? (1Co 12:10; 1Jn 4:1-6)
Yes, we need to listen and consider, but because it is God gifting, not because we owe them something.  Indeed, any gift requires giving without expectation of a return to the person, but to God himself.  Thus the notion of covering seems to be a result of adapting scripture to suit circumstances we created for ourselves.

accountability
Accountability is the system where you are watched and held responsible for your actions by someone else.  Therefore, if Christ is our one and only mediator, there cannot be anyone else who can fulfill the role.  Assuch, is it possible for church leaders to perform a 'covering' role without inserting themselves as a mediators.

When you hear someone advise you to work within the system that exists, please query them.  Ask why they are prepared to live in a way God doesn't want just because that's all there is available right now.
  • Should you be accountable?  Yes, but to God alone.  Indeed let your yes be yes and your no be no.
  • Should you submit to people in a role of authority?  Yes, but not due to their title but because they are family.  Likewise submit to everyone.
  • Should we vulnerable to one another?  Yes, but not because of someone's gift, role, experience, etc, but because our freedom was purchased, equally, by the sacrifice Jesus made (Eph 1:3-14)?  What are some examples of how we could be vulnerable to others?  (e.g. Eph 4:32; Gal 6:1-3; Jam 5:16)

27 Jan 2012

Does authority exist even if we choose to ignore or not recognise it?

If so, does Christ's authority exist if we as believers or as the church collectively ignore or not recognise it, let alone disobey it

If yes, then would it be wise to discover and then stop doing everything that usurps his authority? Usurp? Yes, anything we do to take that does not belong to us.

What areas does the church currently do this?

How are you personally behaving to support this behaviour?
If God desires there be no division between his people, where do denominational groupings within the church fit? What about those who are called believers and unbelievers

Paul appealed people to live in harmony with each other, without divisions in the church. To be of one mind, united in thought and purpose... Some claimed to be a follower of Paul, others Apollos, others Peter, or only Christ. But Christ is not divided into factions. Nor Paul crucified for you? (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)

After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. It’s not important who did what, but rather that God makes the seed grow. (1 Corinthians 3:5-16)

How does this apply when people say “I am a Baptist,” “I am Catholic", or “I adhere to no set denomination”, etc?

Was your minister, pastor, priest, mentor crucified for you?

If Christ is not divided into different groups, what are we doing?

If Jesus ended division by terminating the system of law with its commandments and regulations, then are the requirements we expect of people to belong relevant? If not, what do they do? How?

What are we to make of the promise of Christ in that there is nothing a person needs to do for God to forgive and embrace them? For all people? For all time?

Does placing requirements on people to belong create barriers to what God wants to do?

What are the commandments and regulations the church imposes today to belong? 
Consider things such as attendance of services, how we speak, what we wear, who we interact with, permitted activities, etc. Consider things such as how to pray, worship styles, or what it means to become saved.

What are the alternatives?

3 Oct 2011



Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ; they are serving their own personal interests. (Romans 16:17-18)

 features of a sectarian church group
  • Members point to the importance of their group and/or leader instead of Christ alone.
  • They claim to support the universal church, the body of Christ, but in practice promote structures and attitudes that lead to their own isolation.
  • They may claim their group possesses “the real truth”
  • The ministers/leaders claim to be the ones God reveals things to. People are either not encouraged to listen or understand God for themself, or told there are certain things God speaks to the leaders alone.
  • The praise and warmth people receive when they first join continues only as long as they follow what is expected of them.
  • Other groups of believers (Christians) are criticised or mocked.
  • A belief exists that “our group” can’t learn from others who do/see things differently.
  • People and groups who disagree with them are slandered.
  • People and groups who reject their version of the truth are viewed as dishonest, insincere, offensive, immature, not living right, etc.
  • Anyone and any group who don’t accept their teaching are cut off or isolated.
  • Ministers/leaders control the way people live and their activities by requiring permission to do things or expecting direct input.
  • They are typically not upfront about their core beliefs.
how to avoid joining a sectarian group
  • Ask people and the leaders of the church why people leave their group.
  • Ask to be able to speak with the last 3 families that left.
  • Ask who God speaks to within their group and whether people are encouraged to understand what he says. Ask how and who teaches people how to hear God clearly.
  • Are people freely encouraged to share what they believe God is saying? How?
  • Ask how interaction with other church members outside their group is encouraged. Is action left to the leaders or for anyone?
dangers of joining a sectarian group
  • They will replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit with their own, or of the ministry, or church, and claim to be the voice of the Lord.
  • You will be influenced to have prejudice and intolerance toward other Christians.
  • You will be influenced to invite people to belong to the church group, instead of Christ.
  • Your spiritual and day to day life will become controlled.
  • Their ministers may try to lead your family.
  • If you query or speak against the group, your family may have wedges placed between its members.
  • If you leave, they may expect your children and spouse to stay.
  • If you leave, they may deal with you unfairly and harshly.

2 Oct 2011

When Paul wrote to God’s people of Ephesus, he praised God.  Why?
  • God blesses us with every spiritual blessing because we are united with Christ. 
God loved us and adopted us into his own family, by making us holy and without fault in his eyes through Christ...
  • Who is part of God's family? [LINK]
Paul then explains God’s plan regarding Christ:
  1. Everything would be brought together under Christ’s authority
  2. We receive an inheritance from God because we are united with Christ
  3. United Jews and Gentiles into one people by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations and thus all who hear the truth about Jesus, and believe, bring praise and glory to God
  • What is God's plan? 
  • What did we receive and who received it?
  • How did Jesus do this?
  • What are the implications?
God put everything under Christ’s authority.  He is the head of everything for the benefit of the church (his body).
  • Who belongs to God’s family?
  • Who does the church need to be led by in order for it to benefit?
  • What are the implications when we place someone or something as the head of the church?
Therefore Paul begs people to lead lives worthy of being called by God. To always be humble, gentle, patient, make allowances for one other’s faults, and united in peace.  Why?  There is one body (church), one Spirit, one hope for the future, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father.
  • What is your calling? A ministry or that Christ calls us to follow him?  Explain
  • If we choose to follow then how should we live?  Read also 1Corinthians13
  • Why?
However, he gave each one of us a special gift through Christ: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
  • Does this mean each individual receives these things directly.  Or something else?
  • What is their responsibility?
  • Who are these gifts for?  Why?
  • How should the success of these gifts be measured?
  • What is the responsibility of God's people?
  • How long will this exercise take?  What does that look like?
  • How can success be measured?

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
If God’s people do what God asks of them and are equipped by the ‘fivefold ministries’ to do so … what will the church look like
What is Christ’s role in all this?  What are the implications for us?

bookmark kingfisher

Facebook Favorites More Twitter

subscribe

Search