blogger
Showing posts with label sectarian. Show all posts
Showing posts with label sectarian. Show all posts

29 Dec 2013

This was shared with Matt McGaw and inspired him to come to Canberra, Australia.

"The church in Canberra is in need of genuine fellowship"

However, his report is that after speaking with two or three local churches he gave up and decided to develop his own congregation.

Why?  Because those he spoke with did not want to take up the revelation

What happened when others who did support him approached him?  He told them he was not interested in working with them.

Unfortunately this is sometimes the way when God speaks to those willing to hear him, not all are willing or capable of pursuing things his way.  They come with agendas and therefore filter the world and the people in it.  

It is difficult to understand in situations such as this how people can claim to desire genuine authentic fellowship but feel rejected by those who do not want it and reject those who do.

17 Jul 2012

God why are your people so confused? Why do we prefer to choose a life of niceties and self protection and justify it with the name of your son?  Why are we so ready to reject your reality?  Why do we call comfort and preference faith?

Why do we insist on giving all our time to people who are either like us, don't threaten us, or serve our self interests?  Please God bring our enemies, strangers, foreigners, the unlovable into our lives in such a way we cannot ignore them.  Open our eyes to what it means to reject you when we reject those you love.

Are you serious when you said you would vomit up the luke warm?  What about when you stated that anyone who does not love what you love hates you?  Is it true for you to not know us even as we go about your business?

Please God, don't leave us to our own self indulgences.  Please do something, anything to wake us up.  Please bring us to our senses.

God end our addiction to doing things our way.  Give us revelation to the dangers of pursuing sectarianism before it is too late.  Before the ground opens up beneath us, turn us around.  God teach us to see one another as family, to stop the finger pointing at our neighbours who we have labelled as heathens.  Indeed, please teach us to see one another.

Why do we justify our theological differences when you told us there is oneness in your body?  Why do we allow them to fester to the point of splits, starting something new, and mocking others?  God, what will it take for us to desire a path of healing from our family dysfunctions?

God, Please encourage us to stand by our brothers and sisters.  I am sorry that although my eyes were opened I stand back.  Should I limit my actions to prayer with the hope you will one day resolve our bickering and tribalism?  Or is there something you want me to do?  It breaks my heart to witness our situation.  Please open our eyes.  Please stoke or hearts.

"But don't we pray for other churches?  Don't our leaders gather?  Don't we celebrate at joint events or with visiting speakers?"

Why does it frustrate me to hear people claim that "All is well" or "the church has no real significant differences?"  How can this be true when there are dozens of denominations and hundreds of congregations who were formed on the basis of theological disagreement to the point where many won't even talk with one another.  How can this be a reflection of being one as you and your son are one?  Surely if there are no real differences it wouldn't matter where people go to gather and gain discipleship.  Isn't the same gospel being shared, the one Jesus, one Spirit, Father, etc?

Why have we convinced ourselves that the group we belong to is better than others?  Why have we convinced ourselves that our group has the real and exclusive truth?  Why do our elders compete for your flock, indeed compete for the right to rule your kingdom?  Should we remain silent or have we entered the guilt of enabling and cheering?  Are we to leave our family to their own devices?  How will you view us if we do?  Thank you for sending your son so we wouldn't perish.  Please God open our ears to the truth that comforts as opposed to simply seeking comfort.

6 Feb 2012

Having a chat with a colleague today who shared something very interesting.  She grew up within the Anglican church, then known as the Church of England, she attended every Sunday as was Sunday school teacher for many years.  However, over time she saw the hypocrisy and institutional nature of the church.  Not wanting to abandon God or Jesus who she still loves dearly, she discovered the Buddhist faith to which she now adheres.
This discussion is unfinished, but what stood out was NOT a rejection of God, but a deep desire to stay true while the church of man world around her failed.

Yes, it could be argued she should have persevered, or her faith was weak, etc.
But was it?  Is it?

I believe what she is sharing is a GREAT desire to be in God's kingdom.  However, the culture of the man's church demands or expects certain things of us we just cannot swallow.  And as there are few to no real, authentic alternatives, some people look further afield.

Jesus said when he was on earth that Gods flock was scattered and without a shepherd.  He also asks his people to share that work, both in the old and new testaments.

What would it be like to live in a world where people are like shepherd without a shepherd?  Would Jesus see this in the same light as he did the Pharisees and Sadducees?  Is this lady alone in her plight?

27 Jan 2012

Accepting to follow Jesus means choosing to change how you live, unless you are one of the lucky perfect few.

How does God ask us to live? To worship him with everything you are, and to love other people as you would hope others would treat you (Matthew 7:12). And, fortunately an example of being loved by someone else has/is already given. God.

Choosing to live is to love as God loves us (John 15:1-17). Indeed, anything you say or do, if it lacks love is nothing (1 Corinthians 13).

What does it look like to love as God loves us?

How would church activity need to change in order to start and finish in love?

God has given the church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to equip his people to do what he asks them to do. Until, the church is unified in faith and knowledge of Christ in such a way that we are mature, that is measure up to the full and complete standard of Christ (Ephesians 4).
Is the church mature today?

Are people who say they are 'christian' pursuing teachings that sound like the gospel, but not? Which ones do you do this?

How are these teachings different, no matter how obvious or subtle?

Are people who say they are 'christian' speaking and living God’s truth with love?

What are some examples of how they should be speaking and behaving?

Are people who say they are 'christian' doing what God asks them to do or are they doing what people ask of them? What about you?
Does authority exist even if we choose to ignore or not recognise it?

If so, does Christ's authority exist if we as believers or as the church collectively ignore or not recognise it, let alone disobey it

If yes, then would it be wise to discover and then stop doing everything that usurps his authority? Usurp? Yes, anything we do to take that does not belong to us.

What areas does the church currently do this?

How are you personally behaving to support this behaviour?
If God desires there be no division between his people, where do denominational groupings within the church fit? What about those who are called believers and unbelievers

Paul appealed people to live in harmony with each other, without divisions in the church. To be of one mind, united in thought and purpose... Some claimed to be a follower of Paul, others Apollos, others Peter, or only Christ. But Christ is not divided into factions. Nor Paul crucified for you? (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)

After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. It’s not important who did what, but rather that God makes the seed grow. (1 Corinthians 3:5-16)

How does this apply when people say “I am a Baptist,” “I am Catholic", or “I adhere to no set denomination”, etc?

Was your minister, pastor, priest, mentor crucified for you?

If Christ is not divided into different groups, what are we doing?

If Jesus ended division by terminating the system of law with its commandments and regulations, then are the requirements we expect of people to belong relevant? If not, what do they do? How?

What are we to make of the promise of Christ in that there is nothing a person needs to do for God to forgive and embrace them? For all people? For all time?

Does placing requirements on people to belong create barriers to what God wants to do?

What are the commandments and regulations the church imposes today to belong? 
Consider things such as attendance of services, how we speak, what we wear, who we interact with, permitted activities, etc. Consider things such as how to pray, worship styles, or what it means to become saved.

What are the alternatives?

5 Dec 2011



The following is a response to a spoken message by Tony Rainbow of Victory Church (Adelaide, Australia) to the people of Fusion City Church (Palmerston, Canberra - Australia)

audio link

introduction
Tony began by stating how there were about 120 believers gathered in one place after Christ's ascension (Acts 1:13-15). It was to these people Peter stood and spoke.

Please note this is the only scripture Tony uses during his entire message.

However, rather than putting this into the context of Jesus having asked them to stay in the city until they received the gift of the Spirit, Tony spoke of the significance of the number 120 in relation to human group dynamics:
  • Ignores the broader church by prioritising the local
  • Had it all together relationally
  • Were all at everything which was connected with Jesus' training
  • Relationships were like a family
  • The leadership style was casual and collaborative
  • Communication was informal and face to face
  • There was an ease in how they gathered
  • Everyone knew each other by name
But are these statements interpreted upon the bible itself or assumptions about small group dynamics?   For instance, where in the bible is proof that this or any other group knew the names of all their companions?  Indeed, was the group fluid, did people come and go?  Did anyone ever disagree on matters about God?

Instead, Tony suggests that these group characteristics, while being "the most awesome thing that could ever happen." But the problem comes when we "set this as the goal, we set a ceiling to the growth of the church, because that style of church only works with a certain number of people."

But why?  This assumption occurs when it is presumed people intended to continue gathering in groups of this size.  Why?  Because, the argument being made is to correlate church growth today with a particular gathering 2000+ years ago.

Where in this gathering is the evidence to suggest anyone intended to continue gathering in this way? What about other gathered people in the bible? Where during Jesus' life did he ever model this?

Why do people today find it necessary to justify church growth in terms of the number of people gathered?


bad logic

Arguments that try to build upon faulty assumptions tend to have personal agendas or opinions behind them. Why? Because the conclusion was considered before the evidence was sought.  Consequently, proof tends to be biased to justify seeing what we want to see.  Worse is when the bible is quoted in order to not only support the argument but actually pose it as God's idea in the first place.  The logic is: because scripture is "Holy Spirit inspired", "God's word", etc, then an argument no matter how flawed, given enough quotes, must be true.

This has occurred here with Tony.

Rarely do we allow God's word to speak for itself.

terra nullus
A further assumption being made by Tony is churches today are local in nature.  That is, a church is defined by the people who gather for services in a particular location. Yes, local churches today often have attendances of 80-150 people. However, what we forgot or ignore is local churches do not start, let alone grow, in a state of terra nullus. We falsely assume the territory our local church occupies or entered (planted) was not previously inhabited.

Was your church the first in the area you live?

And, if it was indeed a pioneer: was God there beforehand, or did God only start working in the lives of people when your church was established?

Sometimes it is a challenge to remember that your local church is but one of many, even within a few street blocks. And regionally, one among many many more.  No local church is an island unto itself.  As such, the church to which you belong is not 30, 80, or 120, but could actually be populated by many thousands.

misdirection
Tony: "Who wants the church ... to grow?  Most people want the church to grow but get stuck at a certain number.

Tony: Churches get stuck at 150 or less because this is “about the most number of people a person can connect with.  Thus people naturally feel displaced once their group reaches 50-150 people.

This argument continues to push the idea that church growth is about the number of people who attend a service or the number of people who choose to be members a local church.

How does God consider growth?  Is it about numbers or about invisible things like character?

If there are 100 people in a room singing hymns and listening to a message from the pulpit, how many claim to know God?  How many does God know?  Indeed, does God know anyone who is not in attendance?  Does he know them if they never attend a local church anywhere?  Is that enough?

Furthermore, if the church is indeed more than the local, how do comments like the one Tony raises, redirect how we view the importance of God dwelling among his people?

Finally, I put it to you feeling uncomfortable (displaced) is natural whenever we interact with another person.  The size of the group is irrelevant.  What matters is how you treat each person as they come.  Group size never dictates your relationship.

For a moment revisit Tony's conclusions about group dynamics in a personal way:
  • Are all the relationships you have with people in your church fully healthy?
  • Do you attend everything your church offers?  Do you need to?
  • Do people in your church treat you like family?
  • Is the leadership style of your church casual?  Does it seek guidance of other members?
  • Do you communicate with people informally and face-to-face?
  • Is interacting with people in your church effortless?
  • Do you know everyone in your local church by name?
What does it mean if your church has less than 150 people and the answer to any of these questions 'no'? At the very least it means that group size does not determine our behaviour and attitudes.

What does help shape our behaviour and attitudes?

size culture preference
Tony: "Size in numbers is connected with a size culture needing to be broken,”

Tony: “The main problem to growth is size culture preference,”

Tony: “Bigger change is needed (when) shifting from one size to another within the same denomination (than it is to shift between) denominations of the same size.”

When read in isolation, each of these statements is accurate.  We need to become free to be God’s people no matter how big or small the group of people gathered is.  Unfortunately, this is not the context Tony is suggesting, as shown below.

What was Jesus’ focus?  Did he come for the whole world or was it dependent upon the number of people gathered, the church size?

Why did Jesus so often avoid crowds?

 be big or be small
The following is a list of differences between small and larger churches.  The argument posed was churches with large numbers of people (more than 150) need to do things differntly to smaller ones.  Hence, to grow, a church must change the way it does things.  In short, population size affects activity.  An additional conseuqence of this idea is that smaller congregations are inherently different.  But given churches, no matter their size have people in them, is this accurate?

1.  smaller churches are less complex than larger gatherings because as the group size increases…
  • The less we will have in common with one another.
But, how does this match with what is written in Ephesians 4?
  • Not everything can happen in one Sunday service anymore (e.g. prayer is shifted to prayer meetings, exploring the word to a bible school, discipleship into home groups).
But how could everything occur during a single church service anyway, regardless of its size? What about evangelism, or family, or helping neighbours, etc?  In other words, how does delegating what daily life to set times and facilitators help?  How could you for instance pray, understand God’s word, or disciple others at home, work, school, wherever you are during your week?

2smaller churches need less production effort than larger churches
  • The more people involved, the more planning, lead time, etc is required to enable services and other activities to occur.  Events can no longer simply be thrown together as they are were with smaller gatherings.
To what extent are these events really necessary?  Are buildings, electronic audio devices, instruments, putting out chairs, etc essential to what God needs to do?  How do similar activities occur in parts of the world where money is non-existent?  Did Jesus live this way?  For Jesus, which came first, his mission or his method?
  • Smaller churches don't value the importance of quality of their activities as much as larger churches.  For example, because they embrace people, they permit anyone to sing and play an instrument regardless of their ability. 
Good.  The day we prefer how good a song sounds over the willingness of people to worship God and embrace one another, will be a sad day indeed.  To worry whether visitors are “put-off” based upon singing ability says more about how people view us, than our desire to be in God's presence.  To believe singing ability affects whether people have a “poor” or good impression of the pastor's message, or will “attract people or not” is naive at best (1 Corinthians 2).

3the ministry roles of smaller churches are not as specialised as those of larger churches
  • Small church ministries generalise what they do whereas larger churches specialise. 
Again, this is not a matter of scale.  God gives his gift for the entire church.  Hospitality, prophesy, teaching, etc are not dependent upon how many people are gathered but who needs to be equipped so they may do what God asks of them.  Why?  Because there are other people who either don’t know him or still need help to grow personally and as a community.
  • Only one person who can bring leadership and direction to this church. Thus it is an indictment (strong wrongdoing) for this person to do tasks that others could do. 
Christ and Christ alone is the one and only leader and director of the church.  Placing a person as the sole hearer and interpreter of God's word is dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  It encourages a false separation among God's people which may cause some to shirk their responsibility to speak with and listen to God directly, and others to not discern or question what they are told to believe and do.

4small groups of people do not experience changes to the same degree as bigger groups
  • Because not everyone will agree on the course of action to be taken, power to decide
    needs to move away from the congregation
    (all people) to a leadership team (a few).  This will enable decisions to be made more quickly.
Yes, absolutely, there will be times when, maybe every time, when disagreement will occur.  But to justify this as the reason for concentrating this priveledge in the hands of a few has the potential to ignore insight.  At the very least sharing our differences, in a manner that is respectful of others, helps to bring us closer together.  If nothing else, it evidences the contempt and lack of trust some church leaders and pastors have for people.

To simply claim possession of the decision making for yourself is again dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  Why? People are being asked to rely on Man rather than seek God, together.  The outcome, people are shaped in the image of the decision makers and not God.

So the next time you are invited to seek God about a decision, discern whether your consultation is genuinely being sought: are opposing views listened to and acted upon?  How is the decision to be made proposed: does it sound like they just want agreement on  something they have already decided on? Is there a personal agenda hidden among words that try to convince you that what is being presented is really God's vision?
  • When people leave because of the changes, this proves the church is growing.
Why?  What if you are wrong and they were right?  Was consultation ever permitted?  Maybe people are leaving for totally unrelated reasons.  Are people who stay encouraged to speak with those who leave to find out why?
  • There needs to be greater emphasis on vision and strength... churches need to do fewer things so they can do them well.  Likewise a church shouldn't try to do everything in the community, but try to do some things really well.  Both of these will depend upon the existing skill set and gift set.
While there is some truth in this, it ignores that regardless of the church size, there may never be every skill and gift available for what God is desiring to do.  It is not enough to limit what can be done based upon the resources available.  Doing this reveals a belief that we can do things in isolation and in our own strength.  Let us start by seeking God about what he is doing and how we need to grow and be equipped to accomplish it.  If this includes  cooperating with people outside our group, so be it.

conclusion
  • What does God consider important when it comes to growth?
  • Are we lending ourselves to a culture of self, preference, and prejudice?
  • Should what we do be a by-product of the size of our church group or should what we do be a product of who we are in Christ?

3 Oct 2011



Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ; they are serving their own personal interests. (Romans 16:17-18)

 features of a sectarian church group
  • Members point to the importance of their group and/or leader instead of Christ alone.
  • They claim to support the universal church, the body of Christ, but in practice promote structures and attitudes that lead to their own isolation.
  • They may claim their group possesses “the real truth”
  • The ministers/leaders claim to be the ones God reveals things to. People are either not encouraged to listen or understand God for themself, or told there are certain things God speaks to the leaders alone.
  • The praise and warmth people receive when they first join continues only as long as they follow what is expected of them.
  • Other groups of believers (Christians) are criticised or mocked.
  • A belief exists that “our group” can’t learn from others who do/see things differently.
  • People and groups who disagree with them are slandered.
  • People and groups who reject their version of the truth are viewed as dishonest, insincere, offensive, immature, not living right, etc.
  • Anyone and any group who don’t accept their teaching are cut off or isolated.
  • Ministers/leaders control the way people live and their activities by requiring permission to do things or expecting direct input.
  • They are typically not upfront about their core beliefs.
how to avoid joining a sectarian group
  • Ask people and the leaders of the church why people leave their group.
  • Ask to be able to speak with the last 3 families that left.
  • Ask who God speaks to within their group and whether people are encouraged to understand what he says. Ask how and who teaches people how to hear God clearly.
  • Are people freely encouraged to share what they believe God is saying? How?
  • Ask how interaction with other church members outside their group is encouraged. Is action left to the leaders or for anyone?
dangers of joining a sectarian group
  • They will replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit with their own, or of the ministry, or church, and claim to be the voice of the Lord.
  • You will be influenced to have prejudice and intolerance toward other Christians.
  • You will be influenced to invite people to belong to the church group, instead of Christ.
  • Your spiritual and day to day life will become controlled.
  • Their ministers may try to lead your family.
  • If you query or speak against the group, your family may have wedges placed between its members.
  • If you leave, they may expect your children and spouse to stay.
  • If you leave, they may deal with you unfairly and harshly.

bookmark kingfisher

Facebook Favorites More Twitter

subscribe

Search