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Showing posts with label workshop. Show all posts
Showing posts with label workshop. Show all posts

30 Apr 2013

prosperity-dummiesHow do poor people see themselves?
When poor people are thought we tend to see them in terms of how they lack material things (e.g. food, money, clean water, housing).  However, when a person who is poor is asked how they see themselves most will admit that yes they do lack these things, but more important is their feelings of shame, inferiority, powerlessness, humiliation, hopelessness, depression, social isolation, voicelessness, etc.

Solutions?
How poverty is defined will therefore affect how it is solved.  The mistakes most people make when trying to overcome poverty is that ...

  • we treat the symptoms instead of the underlying illnesses, and
  • we wrongly diagnose the underlying illnesses and therefore prescribe the wrong medicine.

The solution is to develop relationships with people because ...
  • People are not always fully aware of what is affecting their life
  • People are not always fully honest about their life
  • Any effort to resolve poverty is multifaceted in design and execution because we are designed to relate with God, ourself, others, and creation

And therefore we need to ...
  • Discover how God is already working among people, their organisations, institutions, and culture, while also
  • Seeing people as part of the new world Christ is restoring and sustaining

So who are the poor?
Everyone!  We are all poor because when it comes to spiritual intimacy, poverty of being, poverty of community, and a poverty of stewardship, we all lack something.
As such, because not everyone will experience material poverty, it makes it possible to believe that I am better than others just because I have more material stuff. In addition, this belief often comes with a second thought: that because I achieved this wealth through my own efforts I have the right to decide what is best for low income people.  The consequences of this is:

  • People who are not materially wealthy, healthy and powerful have not enough or no faith in God and/or are not obeying him
  • People experiencing poverty are viewed as inferior
  • People are reduced to objects that fill my needs to accomplish

In terms of the church, these are the philosophies of the prosperity gospel.  Where people who are materially wealthy etc are viewed as having been rewarded for their faith and obedience in God.  Therefore, the solution according to the prosperity gospel preached to materially poor people is that all their finances, their jobs, and how much they possess will increase if they only had more or real faith and obedience.  The poor may even be told that they are sick and unemployed because of their lack in faith and obedience.

Unfortunately this philosophy fails when we place it into the context that if it is true then it must apply to every people and culture.  So can the prosperity gospel work in war torn nations or nations that experience governmental corruption?  How would it sound to a woman who has just been raped or a father whose children died in a house fire?

No it cannot!

Jesus himself reminds us that "the poor will always be with us" and that to follow him is to expect suffering and persecution.  He also repeatedly urges us to understand that seeking after the riches of this world leads to death, and that God sees and treats us all equally no matter how much we have or do not have

Conclusions
  • Understand we are all poor in the sense of broken relationships
  • Be open to ongoing repentance: "Jesus can fix us both"
  • Reject the prosperity gospel that claims “spiritual maturity leads to financial well-being”
  • Realise material poverty can be due to external circumstances (e.g. racism, job availability) and not due to spiritual immaturity

9 Jul 2012

10:24 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
Have you heard of the 40 hour famine? Does your church encourage you to fast, for whatever reason?

These days, probably to include more people including young children, we are asked to go for a period of time without.  But what are we asked to abstain from?  Food, junk food, alcohol, TV, computer games, etc?  Are you given the freedom to choose what you give up or are the items specifically outlined for you?

Does it make a difference?  If it doesn't matter what we abstain from then the reason must be about the act itself.  However, if what we abstain from matters, then there mist be other associated reasons in addition to the act itself.

What kinds of fasting are mentioned in the Bible?
  • Absolute Fast - You are not to consume any food or water over a certain number of days.  Nothing.  This is an extreme fast and should only be done for very short periods of time.
  • Normal Fast -  No food of any kind is eaten for a certain number of days. Nothing.  You do drink water and plenty of it. 
  • Partial Fast - You may give up particular foods and drinks for a time. (A commonly used example is Daniel 1:11-14, where Daniel and his friends ate only fruits and vegetables and drank only water for 10 days).

30 Apr 2012

12:25 am Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
In recent years, people connected with the church, have made active attempts to change how they think and speak.  Specifically, they advocate for the replacement of “either/or” logic (statements and questions) with “both/and” logic.
This need comes from key motivations
  1. To prevent contradictory statements of faith
  2. To pay attention to parts of God’s word ignored, overlooked, not focused on enough
  3. I am passionate about this, therefore I must be right
  4. I am angry about this, therefore I must be right
However, there is a problem with this desire:
  • To claim only “both/and” statements exist is bad-logic because to do so we must accept that both “both/and” and “either/or” statements are possibly, while
  • To claim only “either/or” statements exist is also bad-logic because to do so is to accept either a “both/and” or  “either/or” statement could be appropriate to a situation
The other problem with this desire is once it is put into practice.  For example:
  • You are either male or female.  You cannot be both.
  • All living creatures are either alive or dead.  They can never be both.
  • God either exists or He doesn't.  We cannot claim God both exists and doesn't.
  • Salvation is either by by faith or not.  We cannot claim salvation is both by faith and something else.
  • And yet, Jesus is both man and God.
  • Also, you can be both a parent and a child.
In other words, it is possible to have “both/and” logic and “either/or” logic depending on the situation.

27 Apr 2012

4:36 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
First read Genesis 12 and Genesis 13 to find the section where God is promising Abraham about his descendants.

Next read Galatians 3:15-21: When Abraham was promised the land to be inhabited by his descendants, there is a correction: Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ.

Using the concordance link (left sidebar) read again the parts you found in Genesis, specifically the word descendants (Strong's number 2233).

So what appears to have occurred is the translation has caused the word seed to be read as a plural (more than one item) rather than the single (only one item).  This is similar to how we use the word sheep or fish. According to the correction made in Galatians, who is the seed?

Therefore, if the same word is being used in Genesis 15 and Genesis 22, then their meanings will need to be reexamined.

Perform the same concordance research and look for the sections that speak of God's promises when he uses the analogies of stars and sand.

Now to gain an understanding of what God was really promising Abraham:

  1. Write out the following quote from Gen 22:17-18 "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore ; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
  2. Replace the word descendants with the answer to who the seed is
  3. Reading the sentence like this sounds a bit weird so you will need to discover how a few other Hewbrew words translate (highlighted)
  4. Use the meaning which makes sense in the new context
  5. Feel free to look at any other words you need to

When I did it, it came out as follows:

"Indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will make  Jesus mighty.  He will be as the stars of the heavens and the sand on the seashore.  He will possess the gate of the enemy.  In Jesus all the nations of the earth will be blessed, because My voice was obeyed."
Now read John 10:1-8 and John 11:52 from the new testament.  Remember to read the surrounding text for context.  Does anything sound familiar about God's promise?

26 Apr 2012

introduction
When you read the bible, how do you discover and understand what God means?  Do we simply read the words and go apply it?  Do we listen to a church sermon from or the advice of a Christian and simply do as suggested?

Why did Jesus say to the religious leaders and scholars of his day that knowing the words is not enough (e.g. John 5:39-40)?  What did he say we need instead?

Can understanding what God means occur by interpreting the bible through the lens of your society’s culture or your personal life experiences, preferences, desires, biases? (Isa 55:8).  Or should we be evaluating our culture and personal expectations through God's meaning?

Other things to consider:

[dropdown_box expand_text=" " show_more="click to read more" show_less="click to hide" start="hide"]

  • Context ... How much of the message are you being told?  A few words, a sentence or two, maybe a paragraph.  The sentences before and after a passage or quote often bring what is being said into focus.
  • Topic ... What is the real focus of what you are being told?  Is the passage or quote the focus of what is being explained or is it used to justify a predetermined theme or topic?  This is seen when a speaker starts with a quote but the rest of the time is used referring to personal and cultural concepts, ideas, presumptions, etc.
    [/dropdown_box]
    xample

example: friendship (top of page)
To explore this further, read John 15:12-15, a quote sometimes used to speak of friendship.

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
(John 15:12-15)

In a recent church service, the speaker chose this to open a message about friendship (audio).

Was the surrounding text (context) spoken of (John 15:1-27)?  No, these were the only sentences used.  In addition, they were used to open the message, a message among a series about relationships (topic), and explored by a list of cultural types of friendship and concepts (e.g. purpose, value, time needed, number of people involved) about friendship.

Does this passage clearly state that Jesus is teaching about friendship?  Yes.

Does this passage give an explanation for how Jesus defines friendship?

No. It only reveals that he was talking about friendship.

Was the text explored before or after to discover whether Jesus gave any further.  No.

So, what is the context of what Jesus was saying?

What did he say both before and afterward?befo
re
the text before (top of page)
Jesus gives an analogy where He is a vine, God the Father is the viticulturist (grape farmer), and people are a branch.
[table id=9 /]co
mmandments
what does Jesus ask?
(top of page)
What are Jesus’ commandments?
  • That we love one another, just as Jesus loved us (and the Father loved him)
  • This means to lay down (sacrifice) your life for your friends
  • As a result, a friend is anyone who does this
The benefit of this is that Jesus will share everything he has heard from God the Father.after

the text after
(top of page)
Jesus continues his comments about friendship by stating that "the reason why the world hates you is because it hated him first."  Why?  Because when Jesus calls you out of the world you stop being part of it, and the world hates anything and anyone who is not part of it.  Consequently, since Jesus was persecuted, because God the Father is not known, so will you be persecuted. 
summary
summary (top of page)
To be a friend is to sacrificially love people.  This is how God the Father loves Jesus and Jesus loves us.  If you do:
  • You will be glorifying God the Father by proving yourself a disciple of Jesus
  • Jesus will share with you everything he has heard from God the Father
  • God will prune you in such a way that anything you ask of him will be done
  • You will be persecuted by anyone who doesn't know God
action plan: what to do next?
From the teachings of Jesus in John 15, is it possible to list the various types of friendship, or relationships we find in our society?  Is it possible to analyse their value or how to achieve them? Indeed does the teaching justify or prove our culture and personal expectations of friendship or other relationships?
If we take the teaching at face value, we must ask:
  • How do we love people sacrificially? How did Jesus?  How did God?
  • How do we prepare for and persevere through persecution?  What does persecution look like?
  • How does God prune us?
  • Do we limit our sacrificial love (friendship) to certain people or open ourselves to anyone?  What does this mean for our current relationships?  What does it mean for the people we currently exclude or don't see at all?

18 Apr 2012

“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict everyone of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Enoch as quoted by Jude)

In the church there are people who will try to convince you that God allows us to live immoral lives.  Their argument is since God is all loving and forgiving, he will not allow anyone to perish.

Yet, according to the writings of Jude 1, these people deny Jesus Christ. How?
On the one hand they claim to know God by the revelations they talk about. While on the other hand, they
  • live immorally, defy authority, and scoff at things they don't understand
  • grumble and complain
  • brag about themselves
  • flatter others to get what they want
  • live only to satisfy their own desires
It is through this contradictory lifestyle they try to convince you. "I call myself a Christian, a church-goer, but am not prepared to live as a child of God."

remember
  • Jesus rescued Israel from Egypt, but later destroyed people who didn't remain faithful
  • The angels who didn't stay within the limits of the authority God gave were imprisoned
  • Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns were destroyed for their immoral living as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment
beware
When someone claims to know God but lives for themselves they will not only bring destruction upon themselves.  To merely be around them, even at a church worship service could, if you are not vigilant cause you too to stumble.

8 Apr 2012

If history had developed a different set of tasks for the pastor of our local churches, would the people who seek to be today's pastors be doing those things instead of what they are now doing?

Why do we do the things we do?

Why do we do them the way we do?

Do tasks and jobs, activities, create the role (pastor or otherwise), or does the role determine what we need to do and how we do them?  That is, "I am X because I do Y", a matter of utilitarianism (function), or "I do Y because I am X" a matter of character (heart)?

action
With these options in mind, examine your church.  Why are people, including your pastor, priest, elders, deacons, etc, doing what they are doing?  Is it because it is an outcome of the heart God has instilled into the role?  [To discover this answer you may need to revisit the bible and seek God for his intentions.]  Or is it because there are certain activities that need to be done? (and yes there may be a mix of both).

Indeed, ask these same questions of yourself in terms of being for instance a parent, a brother or sister, a child, a work colleague, a friend, a citizen of your city or nation, etc.
related posts

23 Feb 2012

It is essential we always start with God and end with him.  But all too often, people, myself included are so enthusiastic that we start acting before we have sought him.

What does this mean?  Basically, God was at work before we arrived and will still be even once we have left.  Also, it his his will, his heart, his ways, his character, etc that we need to pursue and discover agreement to.  Easy?  Not always.  We are so used to living in ways that are familiar, safe, and make sense, that we forget to start with him.  Often we only do this after we have started acting and then seek him to confirm or justify what we are doing.  I know I have and still do.

revelation           ...the act of revealing or making something known
interpretation    ...the act of explaining something
application         ...to bring into action

So, while we cannot afford to withdraw into endless prayer and contemplation, we must shift our gaze, and change our approach to him.

God is always making himself known (revelation) ... so seek ... knock ... look ... listen
He is never hidden

The question is then since God is always revealing himself, stand back and allow Him to explain himself.  I am learning, and yes I am a slow learner, to ask him questions like "why", or "what is your heart" etc.  Doing so helps bring light to the world around me and in me

As a result, acting often becomes simple.  Easy?  Didn't say that.  But simple, clear... copy him or don't.  Get it perfect?  Maybe...

Let us give it a go.

Let us ask him to reveal himself.  Either in a part of his written word.  In a part of your walk with him in which we struggle.  Or from a blank slate, that is, be open to anything.  Then ask him to explain.

19 Dec 2011

ezekiel 34
To prevent people scattering, to keep them from falling prey to wild animals, God asks his shepherds to…
  • Feed his people
  • Take care of the weak
  • Tend the sick and injured
  • Look for those who have wandered away and are lost
  • Guide people with gentleness and love
To ignore this is to become God’s enemy, he will hold you responsible for what happens to people.  He will…
  • Take away your right to feed people
  • Destroy those who are fat and powerful by feeding feed you justice!
  • Stop you from feeding yourself
And, rather than relying on the shepherds, he will take it upon himself to …
  • Search and find his people
  • Rescue his flock from both the wilderness and failed shepherds
  • Return them back home to the ‘promised land’ from among the nations
  • Tend his people and give them a place to rest in peace
  • Bandage the injured and strengthen the weak
overview
In short, when God’s shepherds don't do their appointed tasks, God promised to personally do what he had asked of them.  This was fulfilled by Jesus being sent to do what Israel should have done, but didn't.  Unfortunately today, this failure continues.  The ‘church’ being the new ‘Israel’ is not shepherding God’s people.

Who are God’s people?  Anyone.  Whether we acknowledge him as Lord or remain estranged.
.
Because the same expectations and consequences of being a shepherd (e.g. discipling) exist today as they always have,  God asks us:

[table id=1 /]

Are the pastor and leaders of your church personally doing these things themselves?  Are you (Revelations 1:4-6)?

Is it enough to speak about it, preach a sunday message/sermon, pray about it, delegate to others?  Or do we need to be involved in the day to day lives of people?

How does God consider those who don't do as he has asked?  He will consider them his enemy and will remove their authority, give them justice, and humble them in every aspect of their lives.  Yes, pastors, priests, elders, deacons, anyone he has asked to be his shepherds.  Does this also mean you (Revelations 1:4-6)?

conclusion
God wants to prevent people from scattering, to bring them home, and keep them from falling prey to anything that may destroy them.  He sends shepherds to help.  Are you helping?

5 Dec 2011



The following is a response to a spoken message by Tony Rainbow of Victory Church (Adelaide, Australia) to the people of Fusion City Church (Palmerston, Canberra - Australia)

audio link

introduction
Tony began by stating how there were about 120 believers gathered in one place after Christ's ascension (Acts 1:13-15). It was to these people Peter stood and spoke.

Please note this is the only scripture Tony uses during his entire message.

However, rather than putting this into the context of Jesus having asked them to stay in the city until they received the gift of the Spirit, Tony spoke of the significance of the number 120 in relation to human group dynamics:
  • Ignores the broader church by prioritising the local
  • Had it all together relationally
  • Were all at everything which was connected with Jesus' training
  • Relationships were like a family
  • The leadership style was casual and collaborative
  • Communication was informal and face to face
  • There was an ease in how they gathered
  • Everyone knew each other by name
But are these statements interpreted upon the bible itself or assumptions about small group dynamics?   For instance, where in the bible is proof that this or any other group knew the names of all their companions?  Indeed, was the group fluid, did people come and go?  Did anyone ever disagree on matters about God?

Instead, Tony suggests that these group characteristics, while being "the most awesome thing that could ever happen." But the problem comes when we "set this as the goal, we set a ceiling to the growth of the church, because that style of church only works with a certain number of people."

But why?  This assumption occurs when it is presumed people intended to continue gathering in groups of this size.  Why?  Because, the argument being made is to correlate church growth today with a particular gathering 2000+ years ago.

Where in this gathering is the evidence to suggest anyone intended to continue gathering in this way? What about other gathered people in the bible? Where during Jesus' life did he ever model this?

Why do people today find it necessary to justify church growth in terms of the number of people gathered?


bad logic

Arguments that try to build upon faulty assumptions tend to have personal agendas or opinions behind them. Why? Because the conclusion was considered before the evidence was sought.  Consequently, proof tends to be biased to justify seeing what we want to see.  Worse is when the bible is quoted in order to not only support the argument but actually pose it as God's idea in the first place.  The logic is: because scripture is "Holy Spirit inspired", "God's word", etc, then an argument no matter how flawed, given enough quotes, must be true.

This has occurred here with Tony.

Rarely do we allow God's word to speak for itself.

terra nullus
A further assumption being made by Tony is churches today are local in nature.  That is, a church is defined by the people who gather for services in a particular location. Yes, local churches today often have attendances of 80-150 people. However, what we forgot or ignore is local churches do not start, let alone grow, in a state of terra nullus. We falsely assume the territory our local church occupies or entered (planted) was not previously inhabited.

Was your church the first in the area you live?

And, if it was indeed a pioneer: was God there beforehand, or did God only start working in the lives of people when your church was established?

Sometimes it is a challenge to remember that your local church is but one of many, even within a few street blocks. And regionally, one among many many more.  No local church is an island unto itself.  As such, the church to which you belong is not 30, 80, or 120, but could actually be populated by many thousands.

misdirection
Tony: "Who wants the church ... to grow?  Most people want the church to grow but get stuck at a certain number.

Tony: Churches get stuck at 150 or less because this is “about the most number of people a person can connect with.  Thus people naturally feel displaced once their group reaches 50-150 people.

This argument continues to push the idea that church growth is about the number of people who attend a service or the number of people who choose to be members a local church.

How does God consider growth?  Is it about numbers or about invisible things like character?

If there are 100 people in a room singing hymns and listening to a message from the pulpit, how many claim to know God?  How many does God know?  Indeed, does God know anyone who is not in attendance?  Does he know them if they never attend a local church anywhere?  Is that enough?

Furthermore, if the church is indeed more than the local, how do comments like the one Tony raises, redirect how we view the importance of God dwelling among his people?

Finally, I put it to you feeling uncomfortable (displaced) is natural whenever we interact with another person.  The size of the group is irrelevant.  What matters is how you treat each person as they come.  Group size never dictates your relationship.

For a moment revisit Tony's conclusions about group dynamics in a personal way:
  • Are all the relationships you have with people in your church fully healthy?
  • Do you attend everything your church offers?  Do you need to?
  • Do people in your church treat you like family?
  • Is the leadership style of your church casual?  Does it seek guidance of other members?
  • Do you communicate with people informally and face-to-face?
  • Is interacting with people in your church effortless?
  • Do you know everyone in your local church by name?
What does it mean if your church has less than 150 people and the answer to any of these questions 'no'? At the very least it means that group size does not determine our behaviour and attitudes.

What does help shape our behaviour and attitudes?

size culture preference
Tony: "Size in numbers is connected with a size culture needing to be broken,”

Tony: “The main problem to growth is size culture preference,”

Tony: “Bigger change is needed (when) shifting from one size to another within the same denomination (than it is to shift between) denominations of the same size.”

When read in isolation, each of these statements is accurate.  We need to become free to be God’s people no matter how big or small the group of people gathered is.  Unfortunately, this is not the context Tony is suggesting, as shown below.

What was Jesus’ focus?  Did he come for the whole world or was it dependent upon the number of people gathered, the church size?

Why did Jesus so often avoid crowds?

 be big or be small
The following is a list of differences between small and larger churches.  The argument posed was churches with large numbers of people (more than 150) need to do things differntly to smaller ones.  Hence, to grow, a church must change the way it does things.  In short, population size affects activity.  An additional conseuqence of this idea is that smaller congregations are inherently different.  But given churches, no matter their size have people in them, is this accurate?

1.  smaller churches are less complex than larger gatherings because as the group size increases…
  • The less we will have in common with one another.
But, how does this match with what is written in Ephesians 4?
  • Not everything can happen in one Sunday service anymore (e.g. prayer is shifted to prayer meetings, exploring the word to a bible school, discipleship into home groups).
But how could everything occur during a single church service anyway, regardless of its size? What about evangelism, or family, or helping neighbours, etc?  In other words, how does delegating what daily life to set times and facilitators help?  How could you for instance pray, understand God’s word, or disciple others at home, work, school, wherever you are during your week?

2smaller churches need less production effort than larger churches
  • The more people involved, the more planning, lead time, etc is required to enable services and other activities to occur.  Events can no longer simply be thrown together as they are were with smaller gatherings.
To what extent are these events really necessary?  Are buildings, electronic audio devices, instruments, putting out chairs, etc essential to what God needs to do?  How do similar activities occur in parts of the world where money is non-existent?  Did Jesus live this way?  For Jesus, which came first, his mission or his method?
  • Smaller churches don't value the importance of quality of their activities as much as larger churches.  For example, because they embrace people, they permit anyone to sing and play an instrument regardless of their ability. 
Good.  The day we prefer how good a song sounds over the willingness of people to worship God and embrace one another, will be a sad day indeed.  To worry whether visitors are “put-off” based upon singing ability says more about how people view us, than our desire to be in God's presence.  To believe singing ability affects whether people have a “poor” or good impression of the pastor's message, or will “attract people or not” is naive at best (1 Corinthians 2).

3the ministry roles of smaller churches are not as specialised as those of larger churches
  • Small church ministries generalise what they do whereas larger churches specialise. 
Again, this is not a matter of scale.  God gives his gift for the entire church.  Hospitality, prophesy, teaching, etc are not dependent upon how many people are gathered but who needs to be equipped so they may do what God asks of them.  Why?  Because there are other people who either don’t know him or still need help to grow personally and as a community.
  • Only one person who can bring leadership and direction to this church. Thus it is an indictment (strong wrongdoing) for this person to do tasks that others could do. 
Christ and Christ alone is the one and only leader and director of the church.  Placing a person as the sole hearer and interpreter of God's word is dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  It encourages a false separation among God's people which may cause some to shirk their responsibility to speak with and listen to God directly, and others to not discern or question what they are told to believe and do.

4small groups of people do not experience changes to the same degree as bigger groups
  • Because not everyone will agree on the course of action to be taken, power to decide
    needs to move away from the congregation
    (all people) to a leadership team (a few).  This will enable decisions to be made more quickly.
Yes, absolutely, there will be times when, maybe every time, when disagreement will occur.  But to justify this as the reason for concentrating this priveledge in the hands of a few has the potential to ignore insight.  At the very least sharing our differences, in a manner that is respectful of others, helps to bring us closer together.  If nothing else, it evidences the contempt and lack of trust some church leaders and pastors have for people.

To simply claim possession of the decision making for yourself is again dangerous, arrogant, and controlling.  Why? People are being asked to rely on Man rather than seek God, together.  The outcome, people are shaped in the image of the decision makers and not God.

So the next time you are invited to seek God about a decision, discern whether your consultation is genuinely being sought: are opposing views listened to and acted upon?  How is the decision to be made proposed: does it sound like they just want agreement on  something they have already decided on? Is there a personal agenda hidden among words that try to convince you that what is being presented is really God's vision?
  • When people leave because of the changes, this proves the church is growing.
Why?  What if you are wrong and they were right?  Was consultation ever permitted?  Maybe people are leaving for totally unrelated reasons.  Are people who stay encouraged to speak with those who leave to find out why?
  • There needs to be greater emphasis on vision and strength... churches need to do fewer things so they can do them well.  Likewise a church shouldn't try to do everything in the community, but try to do some things really well.  Both of these will depend upon the existing skill set and gift set.
While there is some truth in this, it ignores that regardless of the church size, there may never be every skill and gift available for what God is desiring to do.  It is not enough to limit what can be done based upon the resources available.  Doing this reveals a belief that we can do things in isolation and in our own strength.  Let us start by seeking God about what he is doing and how we need to grow and be equipped to accomplish it.  If this includes  cooperating with people outside our group, so be it.

conclusion
  • What does God consider important when it comes to growth?
  • Are we lending ourselves to a culture of self, preference, and prejudice?
  • Should what we do be a by-product of the size of our church group or should what we do be a product of who we are in Christ?

15 Nov 2011


background context
The 'head pastor' of a local church in Canberra, Australia, announced in December 2010 that a recognised prophet said God was "forcing Fusion through some doors".  He then explained this as evidence of the "coming to pass" of a building opportunity in Crace (purchase land and build a church building/centre).

discernment
Note: There is often a gap between revelation, interpretation, and application.  As such, there are a few ways to understand the above dynamics:
  • the prophecy is true and accurately understood by the hearer
  • the prophecy is true but interpreted through the desires of the hearer
  • the prophecy is true but 'tailored' in such a way as to be accepted by the hearer
  • the prophecy is false
As a third party, someone who did not hear the words directly from God, nor the one sharing, we must discern what is going on.  It is not enough to take things at face value.  We can personally talk with God, and he with us.  Also, both the 'prophet' and hearer, in this case a 'pastor' are both human.  They are capable of misunderstanding or biasing.

In this case, did the pastor have earlier desires to build a church building?  It may not have been publicly announced and even denied.

What if the opportunity doesn't succeed?

Does this make the prophecy inaccurate?  Or was it the interpretation?
  • How will the 'prophet' respond?  Seek clarity and discuss how things have been received by themselves and those they spoke with, or will they pass responsibility off onto other?
  • How will the hearer respond?  Will they admit their error and seek clarity, or will they justify their position?
  • What is your responsibility?
what happened next
In this situation, the land was not offered and thus a building could not be built (Nov 2011).  The 'prophet' has been silent, Matt stated that God still desires this local church to have a building, and the congregation clapped and cheered in agreement.

more discernment
Was the prophecy false?  The answer to this is unclear, but it adds possibility it was simply misinterpreted.  God wanting this local church to "go through doors" may mean go places it had not before, but it does not need to imply buildings and property or even the social and emotional associated changes that go with them.  Did anyone ask God what he meant?  Did they do this before the person in charge (the pastor) finalised the interpretation?

Assuming there will be people who will continue to justify their position, what should you as someone who chooses to discern do?  Do you confront and ask questions, or do you keep silent, for whatever reason?

personal responsibilities
  • Seek God's views on the matter, seek peace and an attitude of restoration.
  • Speak where possible directly with the people who made or shared the prophetic statements.  Voice the concerns.
  • If they listen great.
  • If they do not listen, they are now responsible for what happens next.  Yes, it is up to you whether you act in support of the project (e.g. give money). But you cannot force anyone to change.
Should you voice your concerns with others?  Maybe, but if you do, please do it with respect for all concerned.  Remember we all can hear God inaccurately and then, out of love for him, act upon it.

resolutions
How can peace occur among those who disagree?  Does peace mean finding a compromise?  Does peace mean doing what you are asked because the person who asks you is your pastor, boss, parent, etc?  Does peace mean discovering the points of agreement and building upon them?

1 Oct 2011

9:47 pm Posted by Bigfish69 Posted in , , , ,
introduction
We are confronted with a choice: feed our own personal desires or align ourselves with God’s purposes. Are you fighting for your own rights, preferences, opinions, and visions or those of God's? Are you, are we ready and able to do as God requires? (Preparing the Army of God).

Currently, the church is fragmented. It recognises itself as a single unified people in theory only. Christians identify themselves more with where they meet and who they meet with than Christ himself. Listen to how people talk, "Which church do you belong?", "My church is ...", "Are you (insert denomination)?"

Protestant or catholic, pentecostal or charismatic, traditional sunday service or home church. There are so many denominations, movements, and gathering types that it is hardly worth counting. Style, social connections, revelation, doctrine are just some of the building blocks of these differences.

Does God care about any of this? Should we?

The following is a summary of a series of dreams and visions I have had. Whether or not they mean anything is for you to discern. See the links for details.

compassion and oneness
The boundaries separating people from one another will crumble, both within and between churches/parishes as well as between church and community.

preparation and empowerment
God's people being realigned by, with, and to God’s heart and purpose

implications
God desires to transform us from being a scattered people without hope into a nation, called by the his Spirit, protected, equipped, and able to follow command. What does this imply? (scattered bones: Ezekiel 37:1-14)
  • Are God's people scattered today?
  • Yes or no, what does God reveal about being gathered as one people?Is it fair to question the hope the church has?
  • What are the implications of not being protected, equipped, and able to follow what God asks of us in the context of church (local or otherwise)? For who?
  • We need to acknowledge our beliefs and actions, and where needed, apologise, seek forgiveness and pursue God's.
  • We need to let go of self-oriented identity and engage in an identity in Christ.
  • We need to accept responsible for our own choices, actions, growth and stop passing it over to others.
  • We as a people have been presented to God the Father as complete, not with the burden of intimidation, but acceptance.

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